U.S. Senate votes to stop production of F-22 jet.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

U.S. Senate votes to stop production of F-22 jet

By Andy Sullivan Andy Sullivan – 47 mins ago

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The U.S. Senate voted on Tuesday to stop production of the F-22 fighter plane, handing President Barack Obama a victory as he tries to rein in defense spending.

The Senate voted 58 to 40 to strip $1.75 billion for the Lockheed Martin Corp-built planes from a $680 billion defense bill, overriding the objections of lawmakers seeking to protect manufacturing jobs in the midst of a deep recession.

The Senate's vote does not necessarily kill the program, as the House of Representatives included funding for the state-of-the-art fighter in its bill, which sets military spending priorities.

The two chambers must resolve their differences before sending a final bill to the president to sign into law.

Obama has threatened a veto if Congress continues to fund the F-22 beyond the 187 planes already built or in the production pipeline.

"At a time when we're fighting two wars and facing a serious deficit, this would have been an inexcusable waste of money," Obama said after the vote.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates has proposed capping production as part of an overhaul of the Pentagon's weapons programs as it tries to provide resources to fight insurgencies like those in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Pentagon applauded the vote.

On a separate voice vote, the Senate also adopted a measure that urges Obama to impose sanctions on Iran's central bank if that country continues to pursue its nuclear program and rejects an offer for diplomatic talks.

The radar-evading F-22 is designed for combat against other fighter jets but has not seen action in the Iraq or Afghanistan conflicts, where U.S. foes have not fielded an air force. Critics point out that each hour of flight time requires 30 hours of maintenance and say the plane is a relic of Cold War military strategy.

The Pentagon wants instead to ramp up production of the cheaper, more versatile F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, and Gates said last week that funding for that program could be jeopardized if Congress continues to fund the F-22.

Lockheed Martin is the primary contractor for both planes. The company's stock closed at $75.13, down 8.5 percent, on a day when it posted better-than-expected quarterly earnings but failed to raise its full-year forecast.

F-22 backers in the Senate said national security could be compromised if the plane was canceled. Up to 95,000 jobs across the country also could be at risk, said Democratic Senator Chris Dodd of Connecticut, a hub of defense manufacturing.

"To give up an aircraft of this sophistication and this capability, and simultaneously in an economic situation such as we're in .... I think is terribly shortsighted," Dodd said.

Republican Senator John McCain said it was more important to rein in unnecessary spending at a time when the country is amassing a record $1.8 trillion budget deficit.

McCain, Obama's rival in the 2008 presidential contest, said the president deserved credit for "being very firm on this issue" and described the vote as a "big victory for the American taxpayer."

The overall defense authorization bill includes $550.4 billion for military operations and $130 billion for the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq for the fiscal year that starts October 1.

The bill has become a vehicle for several provisions unrelated to military spending, such as the Iran amendment.

Last week, the Senate approved a measure that would expand hate-crime protection to gays and lesbians, and on Monday also extended that protection to military members.

On Wednesday, the Senate is scheduled to consider a provision that would make it easier for gun owners to carry concealed weapons across state lines.

The House version includes $369 million in advanced procurement funds as a down payment on 12 more F-22 jets in fiscal 2011.

A final vote on the Senate bill could come later this week, but the two chambers might not begin to hammer out their differences until September.

(Additional reporting by Thomas Ferraro and David Morgan, editing by Philip Barbara)

U.S. Senate votes to stop production of F-22 jet - Yahoo! News

 

[Amsel]

Well we saved a billion dollars which is a drop in the bucket to what our weekly spending is. After the Iran war is done with I guess we will be able to see if there is a need for the F-22.

 

[Glider]

What I am waiting for is a decision to put the A10 back into production. They are ideal for this type of combat and a cheap to build.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

This is one decision I actually agree with - we're only talking 6 additional aircraft in the current budget. I think in the end we're going to find the F-35 a lot more capable than first advertised.

 

[lesofprimus]

Critics point out that each hour of flight time requires 30 hours of maintenance and say the plane is a relic of Cold War military strategy.

Relic of the Cold War????

Havent any of these people been informed that within the next 10 years we'll be at War in the Pacific???

Interesting little observation on the F-35 Joe.... We wont really know what its true capabilities are until it gets into combat and proves itself against some similarly capable enemy aircraft.... Speaking of which, has the F-22 gotten any confirmed kills yet???

 

[Amsel]

I think the odds are very good that a huge air war is going to happen this year in the Middle East. I think the US will have plenty of support from NATO countries as well as Russia though. Some analysts are saying that this could lead to an exchange of Georgia for Iran with the Russians, or even a split of Iran similar to 1945 Germany. Air superiority, I believe continues to be a #1 priority. I am not too sure of the capabilities of the F-22, but we should maintain our superiority at all costs.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Interesting little observation on the F-35 Joe.... We wont really know what its true capabilities are until it gets into combat and proves itself against some similarly capable enemy aircraft.... Speaking of which, has the F-22 gotten any confirmed kills yet???

Quite true on both accounts, remember this - the F-22 was actually developed in the mid/ late 1980s. The F-35 took a lot of the base technology and improved upon it in the mid/ late 90s. Not only was more "stuff" stuffed into a smaller airframe, there were a lot of lessons learned during the F-35 development.

"Minnie Me" (as the F-35 was called out at EDW) will have some big shoes to fill. I still think we'll have plenty of F-22s around in the short term, but I wouldn't throw away the tooling, especially if we see China start building aircraft carriers.

 

[CharlesBronson]

Spending so many time and money n developing teh most powerful fighter aircraft and then not producing it fully dont seems very wise, however is clear that the today US and Wolrd economy is really bad.

Is any infomation about how many has been manufactured so far ?

 

[Soundbreaker Welch?]

It's true the F-22 sounds neat, but I'm not sure we would have an absolute ned for it, unless we were going up against a real powerful country like Russia or China.

If we did get involved with a war with Iran, hopefully the fighters we have right now, and the upcoming F-35, can take care of the problem.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Spending so many time and money n developing teh most powerful fighter aircraft and then not producing it fully dont seems very wise, however is clear that the today US and Wolrd economy is really bad.

Is any infomation about how many has been manufactured so far ?

About 141...

Not to go on a political tangent here but the production of a weapons system like the F-22 induces thousands of high paying jobs from the prime contractor, to subcontractors, to small mom and pop shops, let alone to business benefiting by those working on the F-22. Some say the money could be better spent on social programs but when you look at the employment base of F-22 workers and the affect they have on a community, I think its a close call...

All this fuss is still over 6 additional aircraft.

 

[Matt308]

... and don't forget that Japan is still pining for her. Heavily. Even with the congressional ban, I suspect that there are some games afoot that keeping the line open a little longer might allow some political wrangling to ultimately allow Japan (and perhaps Isreal) to purchase the F-22 (or F-22 lite).

With the Chicoms and NKs flexing muscle, we are increasingly likely to make a change in policy. It is interesting to note that Japan is asking for an air superiority fighter replacement that is currently fielded by their F-4EJs and are also one of the few nations that is NOT asking for source code access. I say sell it to them with a US maintenance package to hide stealth technology and keep the line open for potential future war activities that may crop up in the next 10-15 years. The maintenance package is the stalling point. The stealth coating is likely the area that is difficult to sell without giving away trade secrets. 30 years old or not.

 

[Clay_Allison]

The Aussies also want the F-22.

 

[river]

Hi,

The Aussies also want the F-22.

Yes... and we could probably only afford 5 or 6 of them. Considering the size of Australia, a handful of F-22s isn't really going to go very far. I think we should keep the Caribous and put cannons on them.

What's this talk about a major war in the Pacific? Who will be fighting who? And why?

If you are going to lock horns with Russia or China then I don't think fighters and bombers are going to do much, nor wold they be needed. I would assume that ICBMs are the bad asses you would use in such a conflict.

river

 

[Clay_Allison]

I think both sides of any engagement between the US and China or Russia would prefer any outcome to nuclear war.

 

[Torch]

Everything I've read about the F-35 is that it's capable electronics wise but lacking in a "dogfighting mode", too many different variables in one design. I know stealth, radar,sensors are important but we always seem to forget that when the poop hits the fan and you go to guns you need a plane that can do it and it looks like they are making excuses for it already. I sure hope it's not the case.

 

[Clay_Allison]

Everything I've read about the F-35 is that it's capable electronics wise but lacking in a "dogfighting mode", too many different variables in one design. I know stealth, radar,sensors are important but we always seem to forget that when the poop hits the fan and you go to guns you need a plane that can do it and it looks like they are making excuses for it already. I sure hope it's not the case.

That's my worry as well.

 

[Matt308]

That is a valid worry. Unless you can supplement the F-35 with knife-fight platforms, you do have somewhat of a compromise. However, don't underestimate the force multiplier that the F-35 brings to the battlespace. Tactics will likely evolve over the next 20 years on how to best apply this platforms capabilities.

 

[drgondog]

The single biggest issue to me is this. For this moment in time our aviation technology (and technologists) are still the best in the world. It is our ONLY manufacturing edge.

When those engineers (andtooling, and bond specialists, etc) are laid off, Obama's 'shovel ready jobsprograms' are not adequate to park those guys with IRREPLACEABLE experience and knowledge - and you don't just 'relocate' to the F-35 lines.

Our national debt Interest paid to China is 'free money' for the biggest arms and technology build up the world has seen since WWII - in China. At this rate our edge in aerospace will disappear shortly - and we will be FAR behind in manufacturing base as GM, and Lockheed, and Chrysler, etc continue to either wither away or go offshore because labor costs are too high in union shops.

I believe RPV's are the wave of the future but they also introduce hackable controls from either land based cyber tech - or space based control of high ground weapon systems.

 

[beaupower32]

I say we get rid of all this fancy technology and bring back WW2 Warbirds. How great would that be to see warbirds hunting the skys again. No missles, limited radar. Just pilot, plane, and guns.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

The single biggest issue to me is this. For this moment in time our aviation technology (and technologists) are still the best in the world. It is our ONLY manufacturing edge.

When those engineers (andtooling, and bond specialists, etc) are laid off, Obama's 'shovel ready jobsprograms' are not adequate to park those guys with IRREPLACEABLE experience and knowledge - and you don't just 'relocate' to the F-35 lines.

Bingo! I think the only salvation the F-22 program will have is the chance of foreign sales, and yes, do not destroy the tooling.