Use of Combat Flaps

Discussion in 'IL-2 Sturmovik Pilot's Lounge' started by shiro_amada_jp, Sep 15, 2009.

  1. shiro_amada_jp

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    In Pacific Fighters, how should you use the combat flaps on a fighter aircraft, say the A6M Zero? Do you deploy them when you want to turn in a dogfight or if you want to slow down to force an enemy aircraft into an overshoot?
     
  2. phatzo

    phatzo Member

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    this is something you need to get a feel for as well as knowing what speeds certain amounts of flap can be deployed. Usually only needed if you are in trouble and need to regain advantage. Basic but hope it helps.
     
  3. proton45

    proton45 Member

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    You don't (necessarily) want to deploy the flap all at once (some of the time), but you can use them if you find yourself in an extended turn fight with someone...it will give you the edge when things get slow. That said, I agree with the above statement...you really have to get a "feel" for when it could help you. A quick example: You find yourself with a "turn option", question: "how much speed will you bleed as you complete your maneuver?" Is it really necessary to use the flaps to turn into your opponent or could it slow you down too much in the "long run"?

    Also, on some aeroplanes the flaps will get stuck if you deploy them at really fast speeds...:rolleyes:

    I hope my ramblings don't hurt your chances of "bagg'in a turkey"...:rightfighter5:
     
  4. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    Only time I consider deploying my combat flaps is if I'm going to make a ground attack pass...
     
  5. strike

    strike New Member

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    using flaps allows you to turn tighter, but it does slow you down, if you think your turn without the combat flaps is not enough to do the job( out turning a bandit or taking a shot) deploy them, if even not enough then deploy the take off flaps and so on, but you need to watch what you r turning with, only turn and figth if you have a better turn fighter but you need to be aware of you E at the sam time.......
    And I never deploy takeoff flaps above 150mph, ill deploy combat flaps at any seed
     
  6. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    If you keep your speed up, you have a far better chance of survival.

    If I see an opponent is on my six and starting to get inside me, I'll throttle up (or hit MW boost) and work my way out of the situation...if they try and drop thier flaps to get inside me, I'll roll out and away...they now have lost any possible advantage by bleeding off thier speed, which I still have.

    And you can be assured I'll exploit that...
     
  7. proton45

    proton45 Member

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    good point...another thing i might point out is that even without flaps the A6M series will turn better then most aeroplanes...
     
  8. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    Good point...

    Something that needs to be taken into consideration is:

    What is your opponent flying?
    What's your current condition (fresh, returning from a sortie - ammo partially expended, combat damaged)?
    Whats the altitude?
    What's the weather?
    What's your loadout (cannon pods, extra fuel - anything that may affect your machine's handling)
    Where's your enemy's wingmates and where's yours?

    Tons of variables that can have a huge impact on how you should engage.

    Simply dropping the combat flaps in a brawl isn't the magic solution, and in some cases can actually work against you...
     
  9. beaupower32

    beaupower32 Well-Known Member

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    Very true, had this happen to me the other day. In a dog fight with a Fw190 D-9. I was in a P-51D. I was pretty low on fuel, and was heading on my way home. Saw a lone contact off my 9 oclock. We got into a very good dog fight, but I made a mistake, and had to drop flaps. Well, I dropped too much and it was more drag than help. Put my nose down and the flaps jammed in the down position. Couldnt fight anymore, and I had to end up ditching. Be carefull how u use flaps, as it might come back and bite you in the A$$.
     
  10. vanir

    vanir Banned

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    In Pacific Fighters flying an A6M I'd say combat flaps are best used if you're in a low speed tight turn and you're bleeding off too much airspeed and might stall, but you need to keep the turn up because someone is shooting up your tail. Then I'd use combat flaps to keep the tight turn without stalling. If you do that what you'll probably find is you do a 180 on them and get a firing position where just about any other a/c would've either stalled out or tried to disengage.
    In a Japanese fighter it is always a better option to turn than to extend, you can't win speed fights but will kick butt in a turning fight...the trick is to make sure it stays a turning fight by using things like your combat flaps when you need to. The Zero/Oscar pilot's motto should always be "When in doubt, reverse direction."

    Generally speaking though you use combat flaps when you're opponent is going a bit slower than you and you need to tighten up your turn (say in a Messer versus Spit engagement). You can also use them for a more stable low speed ground attack run and recovery. Most a/c can't use flaps for airbrakes as they're not high pressure enough and won't even deploy at high speed, or they can break the gear. Some can though, you should check the maximum airspeed for use of flaps in the a/c you're flying (usually on a warning plate in the cockpit).
     
  11. thewritingwriter89

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    Some airplanes benefit more from the use of flaps than others. For example; the Spitfire has little need for flaps, simply because it turns so well in its normal configuration (probably a bad example cause it only has landing flaps). However, heavier aircraft such as the Tempest or Corsair (generally airplanes which are better suited to high speed "hit and run" attacks) can sometimes have their turn performance dramatically enhanced with the use of flaps.

    My opinion on using flaps to slow down when an enemy is behind you...

    This is a last resort, and I mean LAST RESORT, for several reasons.

    1. If you have to use flaps to intentionally slow down in a dogfight, you are probably doing something wrong lol. (Key words: "Throttle Control")
    2. Flaps take TIME, even combat flaps on some American aircraft seem to take forever, and if you are gauging survival on something that may take 5-10 seconds to be effective, that's ample time for your adversary to yank the throttle back, put the nose down and have a go at you. And...once it works (if, i should say), most likely the enemy has shot by you, and you are now slow, and with every passing second, increasingly out of range. In other words (and this is my humble opinion), evasion=decisive throttle control, and sharp controlled turns. Nothing bleeds airspeed quickly like a sudden, jink to one side. Just don't go back the other way unless you can anticipate your opponent's move and you know what you are doing. But i digress...
     
  12. proton45

    proton45 Member

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    I have seen zero pilots that seem to be very good at "sucking people into turn-fights"...it seems like they turn just enough to spoil your shot, but not so much that your are afraid to follow them. They keep turning slowly and you follow them by turning "just a little more just a little more", and by the time you feel uncomfortable with the degree of turning you've committed too, you are already flying by them. I have seen people bleed very small amounts of "E" on each pass and all the while the attacker doesn't understand how much energy they are loosing by turning a little bit more on each pass...I have even seen people who finally get frustrated with the "cat mouse game" and they loose their cool...they think that with one more big turn they can finally get "lead" on the zero and blast them...ooops.

    I'm very impressed by the zero pilots who can fly this way...they must be very good at judging their attackers "E", angle of attack, and they must have a lot of nerve. I have tried flying this way and I'm always tempted to turn too much and then I'm (the A6M pilot) bleeding too much energy...:rolleyes:
     
  13. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    That's a good example of "jagdfieber" (hunt fever)...

    Becoming fixaded on the kill instead of your situation can lead to disasterous results. If I have an adversary that is trying to bait me into a situation where I don't have control, I'll change tactics immediately.

    I've also seen where an opponent will try and lure you into a turning fight, and thier wingman will try and slip in behind you for the kill. If I can't get in a shot after one attaempt, I'll roll out and work for a different setup.

    I think the best advise would be to know what your machine is capable of, your opponent's machine is capable of, and maintain situational awareness at all times.
     
  14. beaupower32

    beaupower32 Well-Known Member

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    Had a pretty intresting morning this morning. Was playing Aces High before I went to work. Well, I took off in a F4U-1A Corsair with about 50% fuel load. 2 con east of the Carrier about 6 thousand. I headed west to get some alt, and circled back after climbing to 6k. Had a Seafire and a Ta-152 circling about. I engaged both of them. I took care of the Seafire as that was the bigger threat. Then the 152 proceaded to start trying Head On passes. I suckered him down to the deck and got into a turn fight. Popped 2 notches of flaps, came around on him in one hell of a hurry, and took his left wing off. It was fun. The 2 notches of flaps helped me end the fight. I knew I could out turn him with out flaps, but I wanted to end the fight early just incase more cons showed up. Landed the plane with fumes in the tanks.
     
  15. thewritingwriter89

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    Does anyone fly the N1K1? That thing is just plain dangerous with those automatic flaps. Not a big fan of flaps, but I do like those :)
     
  16. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    Not every day you tangle with a Seafire and a Ta152 with a Corsair!

    But then again, that's no weirder then my defending Pearl Harbor...in a He100 (just imagine the headlines: Huns to the rescue!!) :lol:
     
  17. wheelsup_cavu

    wheelsup_cavu Well-Known Member

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    That's the fun thing about this sim.
    There is no wrong plane to fly...


    Wheels
     
  18. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    I'll agree with that.

    A while back, I flew the Soviet TB-3 when I was doing those bridge runs on the Smolensk map (bridge complex at Vitebsk) and it was remarkably easy to handle. It was gawd-awful slow, but flew extremely well (and fit under the bridge by mere inches)...
     
  19. wheelsup_cavu

    wheelsup_cavu Well-Known Member

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    The TB-3 is slower than molasses but it sure gives me a satisfying feeling when I navigate that slow beast through flak and make it home.


    Wheels
     
  20. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    You know, that might be the grounds for a new thread: "What's the most antiquated bomber used in WWII?"

    Because the TB-3 would be a real good candidate for the top of the list. That open air antique with it's spoked wheels and corrugated skin has to have been designed in the early 20's...
     
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