WALTER JUNIOR prop

[Jose Miguel]

Hola, me gustaria obtener información sobre una hélice bipala de metal, con una inscripcion en mayusculas que reza "WALTER JUNIOR" y con un iconopunzonado que es un triangulo con las letras HKW dentro, por un lado las palas son negras y por el otro color aluminio.
Su propietario me dice que perteneció a un Messerschmitt de la Legion Condor... alguien tiene dastos?

Hello, I would like to obtain information on a metal two blade propeller, with a capital inscription that says "WALTER JUNIOR" and with a punched icon that is a triangle with the letters HKW inside, on one side the blades are black and on the other Color aluminum.
Its owner tells me that it belonged to a Messerschmitt of the Legion Condor ... do you have any information?

Muchas gracias!!
Thank you!!

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Hola, me gustaria obtener información sobre una hélice bipala de metal, con una inscripcion en mayusculas que reza "WALTER JUNIOR" y con un iconopunzonado que es un triangulo con las letras HKW dentro, por un lado las palas son negras y por el otro color aluminio.
Su propietario me dice que perteneció a un Messerschmitt de la Legion Condor... alguien tiene dastos?

Hello, I would like to obtain information on a metal two blade propeller, with a capital inscription that says "WALTER JUNIOR" and with a punched icon that is a triangle with the letters HKW inside, on one side the blades are black and on the other Color aluminum.
Its owner tells me that it belonged to a Messerschmitt of the Legion Condor ... do you have any information?

Muchas gracias!!
Thank you!!

If this what the propeller looks like?

 

[Jose Miguel]

If this what the propeller looks like?

 

[Jose Miguel]

yes it looks very similar, here some pics.... it is 2 meters long. it reads some words like that WALTER-JUNIOR and "LINKSGEWINDE" and also that marking the triangle with HKW

 

[Wurger]

LINKSGEWINDE - means the levorotatory thread.

And I don't think it's one of the early Bf109 prop. It seems it was used for a smaller aircraft , not necessarily of WW2 era.

 

[Jose Miguel]

it was in the basement of the house of a german man whose father came to Spain as an engineer with the Legion Condor, married a beautiful spanish girl and stayed here.
there were a handwrote note reading "one like this killed my friend Fritz".
I investigated and found that the only one casualty called "Fritz" in the Legion Condor in Spain was the BF 109B´s pilot Fritz Awe, and his plane was cuted by the propeller of his wing mate Adolf Borchers. He died and Borchers could land his plane.
I understand that this is not the Borchers plane prop, as it read "one like this", so i would like to know if at least it belonged to a 109 or what kind of plane.
It is german and it is from the 30´s, that seems a fact.

 

[Wurger]

The prop is a metal one so it means i could have been used for Bf 109B-2 because the B-1 version had a wooden prop. However the propeller for B-2 was of the variable pitch type. While the one you posted above seems to be a fixed pitch prop. The differences in appearance are the prop blade roots and the central hub.

Here is another shot of a Spanish Bf 109B-2. The pic caption says: 6-19 was the first Bf 109B that was delivered with a variable pitch 2-bladed VDM prop. The shape of the prop blade can be noticed.

 

[Jose Miguel]

There are two types of variable-pitch propellers: adjustable and controllable. The adjustable propeller's pitch can be changed only by a mechanic to serve a particular purpose-speed or power, this is the type i have.

 

[Wurger]

Yep you are right. But the Bf 109B-2 prop was a self-adjustable or if you prefer the controlable type. I haven't heard if a such prop was used for the early Bf 109s. What is more all images of the early Bf 109s show the controlable type of the propeller. And also the prop blades are of a little bit different shape.

 

[woodhaven]

Bf 109 B - Drewniane śmigła LUB metalowe śmigło VDM 9-11037

 

[Wurger]

Yep.. also I would like to pay your attention to the prop diameter ( both wooden and metal ). These were of 3,2m while the prop diameter of posted one in #4 is 2m . Also the shape of the prop baldes is different from the VDM metal propeller. Another detail is the lack of the the Hamilton or VDM logo on the prop blades. And therefore I would say it isn't a Bf 109B prop rather.

 

[woodhaven]

Hellmuth Walter Kommanditgesellschaft (HWK) - Walter-Werke

Propellers for Walter Junior (Walter Minor) engines

 

[Wurger]

Exactly.. and this is my first thought the prop was used for a smaller plane powered by these engines..

 

[Jose Miguel]

Exactly.. and this is my first thought the prop was used for a smaller plane powered by these engines..

Ok guys, so we have this:
- It seems not to be a BF109. (its curious how that note said "one like this" killed my friend Fritz, and that only casualty called Fritz was Fritz Awe... Fritz Awe died in his BF109 cutted by the propeller of the Adolph Borgers BF109:
"4 April 1938
1. and 2.J/88 relocated from Zaragoza to Larraja, south of Huesca, where Volkmann was to make an inspection of the units. Leading a Schwann from 1. Staffel, Leutnant Fritz Awe ordered a 90-degree turn to port as the Messerschmitts made their landing approach around midday. As his wingman, Unteroffizier Adolf Borchers, overlapped Awe's Bf 109, his propeller cut into Awe's cockpit, breaking the fuselage in half. The tail spun to the ground while the cockpit, forward fuselage, engine and wing fell in pieces after it. Awe was discovered decapitated in the remains of his cockpit. Borchers, whose fighter overturned upon landing, suffered only light injuries....." )

- And that Walter Junior (or Minor) was a smaller engine... for smaller planes. Ok.
so, considering that the man was engineer in the Legion Condor, the propeller should come from that scenario....
How can i find if there were any kind of plane in the Legion Condor using that propeller-engine Walter Junior?

 

[Wurger]

A question .. what did the guy do for making his living after the war in the Spain?

Also, his servicing during the war in the Legion Condor doesn't mean the prop was used in that time. What is more the statement " one like this" may be a general one meaning a propeller only. The another matter is the friend's name. It might have been Lt. Fritz Awe but if it is true... I'm not sure. It is also likely the guy could have been someone who was an aircraft mechanic but not a pilot as well and was killed by a prop during an accident on an airfield , etc. and not necessarily while servicing in the Condor unit.

Here is a shot of Bf 109B with the hub of the VDM prop seen. Although its quality isn't the best , the differences can be noticed.

anic

 

[Wurger]

I digged more via the net and found that ... Lieutenant Fritz Awe of 1/JG88 met his fate in 6-20 when his aircraft was cut to pieces by the airscrew of his wingman during a transition flight to Lanaja on the 4th of April 1938 ...

 

[Jose Miguel]

he started a successfull car repair business and in the 50´s he became a very important german car brand dealer. His son is still on it today.
So im sure the prop is from the late 30´s.
but.... which plane used it? i want to donate it to a museum, but i need to know what it is exactly, befote they take it as scrap....