Was MK-108 ever installed in Bf-109s?

Discussion in 'Weapons Systems Tech.' started by tomo pauk, Dec 15, 2008.

  1. tomo pauk

    tomo pauk Creator of Interesting Threads

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2008
    Messages:
    7,988
    Likes Received:
    433
    Trophy Points:
    83
    For sake of clarification: was the jack hammer ever installed as the motor cannon in 109s?
     
  2. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    41,767
    Likes Received:
    684
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    A&P - Aircraft Technician
    Location:
    USA/Germany
    I do not think so. I believe it was used in the engine block of Do 335s and that is it. It was used by other aircraft in gondolas under the wing.

    I might be wrong, but I think that is correct.

    The Mk 108 however was used in the Bf 109.
     
  3. tomo pauk

    tomo pauk Creator of Interesting Threads

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2008
    Messages:
    7,988
    Likes Received:
    433
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Thanks for the reply.

    Will the moderator please change the gun name from the title to the MK-108 (so, the short 30mm gun)?
     
  4. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    41,767
    Likes Received:
    684
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    A&P - Aircraft Technician
    Location:
    USA/Germany
  5. CharlesBronson

    CharlesBronson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    3,822
    Likes Received:
    66
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Metalurgic Technician
    Location:
    Cordoba - Argentina
    Sure it was, in the G-4/u4, G-6/u4, G-10 and K-4 variants.
     
  6. seesul

    seesul Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2006
    Messages:
    3,519
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Zlin, Czech Republic
    Home Page:
    Just a note- you could change the name in the tittle it as well. When you press EDIT and then GO ADVANCED button, you can change the letters in the tittle or attach or remove pics...
     
  7. SoD Stitch

    SoD Stitch Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2007
    Messages:
    981
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Heavy Equipment Rental
    Location:
    Pine Mountain Lake, California
    Yeah, I always get those two mixed up, too; the Mk 108 was the short-barrelled (kurz) version of the 30mm cannon (the kind used in the Me 262), and the Mk 103 was the long-barrelled (lang) version (and was usually used in under-wing gondola installations).
     
  8. Kurfürst

    Kurfürst Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2005
    Messages:
    1,076
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    legal field
    Location:
    Aquincum, Pannonia Prima
    The MK 103 and MK 108 were different guns with different operating principles, not just long and short versions of the same gun..!
     
  9. SoD Stitch

    SoD Stitch Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2007
    Messages:
    981
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Heavy Equipment Rental
    Location:
    Pine Mountain Lake, California
    I knew there was more to it than just the barrel lengths, but I don't know the details; IIRC, the rate of fire was different, also (in addition to the muzzle velocities).
     
  10. KrazyKraut

    KrazyKraut Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2008
    Messages:
    339
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    They are entirely different designs. Different operating principle, different ammunition etc. About the only thing they have in common is the calibre.

    Just like a G3, AK-47 and Mosin Nagant are all "7.62mm" rifles, but are all completely different.
     
  11. kool kitty89

    kool kitty89 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2007
    Messages:
    3,069
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    They also used the same projectiles for the most part, and had the same Manufacturer.
    The MK 108 operated by API Blowback, like the Oerlikon guns. (the MG FF being a derivative of the Oerlikon FF) The MK 103 was signifcanly larger (and more than 2x the weight and greater bulk) and operated by a combination of gas and recoil.

    Here's a picture showing both to scale. (they are obviously very different weapons)
    CANNON OR MACHINE GUN
    [​IMG]
     
  12. seesul

    seesul Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2006
    Messages:
    3,519
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Zlin, Czech Republic
    Home Page:
    Bf109 K-4 guns mounting
    a. 13mm Rheinmetall Borsig MG 131
    b. 30mm Rheinmetall Borsig MK 108
    c. 13mm magazine
    d. 30mm magazine
    e. trigger
    f. ReviC/12D gun sight
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Eurofighter

    Eurofighter New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2008
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    The MK 108 was used in the top 3 fightes the Luftwaff had: the Bf 109, the Fw 190 and the Me 262.
     
  14. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2008
    Messages:
    15,185
    Likes Received:
    2,027
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Public Safety Automotive Technician
    Location:
    Redding, California
    Home Page:
    The Mk108 was also used on the Bf110, Me163, Ta152, Ta154 and "Schräge Musik" equipped aircraft...

    That "air hammer" was an awesome peice of equipment :thumbright:
     
  15. kool kitty89

    kool kitty89 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2007
    Messages:
    3,069
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    I beleive Erich postedin another thread that the MK 108 was unpopular on nightfighters as it was too powerful. There was a high risk of debris from the target hitting the attacker at close range. (particularly for the "Schräge Musik" placement)

    The 20 mm MG 151/20 and the MG FF (still used in "Schräge Musik" late in the war) were preferred.
    The high velocity MK 103 may have been a possibility as it allowed possible hits at safer ranges. (though I beleive the 20 mm was considered poweful enough and the 30 mm as overkill)
     
  16. KrazyKraut

    KrazyKraut Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2008
    Messages:
    339
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The MK 108 also produced a pronounced muzzle flash at night, which made it unpopular aswell.
     
  17. Denniss

    Denniss Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2006
    Messages:
    835
    Likes Received:
    46
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Never heard of a G-4/U4, the MK 108 was introduced in the G-6/U4 in autumn 1943. There may have been a G-5/U4 (pressurized version of the G-6). The standard G-10 was armed with the 2 cm MG 151, only the G-10/U4 subvariant had the MK 108. Some G-8 were said to have used the MK 108 as the only armament but I can't believe this - wasting a powerful gun on a recon bird where the 2 cm MG 151 would provide way enough power.
    The K-4 was armed with the MK 108 (and two 13 mm MG 131) but some may have been equipped with the 20 mm MG 151 instead of the MK 108 (lack of guns?). Some authors still believe the K-4 was armed with the MK 103 engine cannon and MG 151 in the cowl position :evil: .
    The MK 103 was just too long to fit into the section behind the engine in the Bf 109.

    The MK 103 was AFAIK used in the Ta 152C engine block as well as in the Do 335 (as mentioned earlier).
     
  18. alejandro_

    alejandro_ Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2005
    Messages:
    246
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I will post my question here to avoid opening a topic.

    - Does anyone know the first Luftwaffe unit to use MK-108? it seems that first successful attacks took place in 1944 according to "The Luftwaffe Over Germany: The Defense of the Reich".

    Can anyone confirm this?
     
Loading...

Share This Page