What is this automotive blasphemy?

Discussion in 'OFF-Topic / Misc.' started by Thorlifter, Oct 11, 2016.

  1. Thorlifter

    Thorlifter Well-Known Member

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    Actually, it all makes sense, but it's still weird.....

    There was a time when manual transmissions were synonymous with performance cars, but that time is past.

    Ferrari is the latest automaker to retire the clutch pedal, a move that will probably seem like a gut punch to fans of stick shifts, but isn’t too surprising given the low sales of manuals in Ferrari's and other high-end performance cars over the past few years. And that’s not even the primary reason why Ferrari is ditching manuals.

    “Ferrari is design, performance, and state-of-the-art technologies. There’s no manual transmission that can beat this performance and therefore we have decided to stay on the double-clutch gearbox,” Michael Hugo Leiters, the automaker’s chief technology officer, said in an interview with Motor Authority at the recent 2016 Paris Motor Show. Even a well-shifted manual can’t match the speed of modern dual-clutch transmissions, after all.

    That argument is a compelling one for manufacturers constantly looking to increase the performance of their cars, both to win over consumers and to achieve bragging rights. For decades, manual transmissions had a performance advantage over those without clutch pedals, but today’s dual-clutch transmissions have erased that advantage. They shift faster, and they help car makers snag customers that might have been discouraged by having to master a manual.

    Ferrari isn’t alone in leaving the manual transmission behind. Lamborghini and McLaren don’t have a single manual between them, and Porsche has made the dual-clutch PDK transmission mandatory on the highest-performance versions of its 911. Porsche still offers manuals on lower-level models, though, and Aston Martin still offers them throughout its range.

    Manuals are also much easier to find on less-expensive cars. Once you leave the six-figure realm, they start to become more common on performance cars. The manual transmission is definitely on the endangered species list, but it’s not extinct … yet.
     
  2. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    Dunno man...I have always preferred a stick over an auto when I'm performance driving.

    My '08 Scion would eat up the curves in the canyon roads up here but I found myself working the brakes way to hard because of the car's built up speed coming into a curve. In my '79 BMW 320i, I could downshift, holding the energy into a corner and actually steer the car with the gas in the turn (give it gas to tighten, back off to widen) and come out of the turn like a rocket on rails.

    I think in straight ahead autobahn-blasting, the auto may be the champ, but in road-coursing, there is no comparison.
     
  3. Capt. Vick

    Capt. Vick Well-Known Member

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    So double-clutch means automatic?
     
  4. Thorlifter

    Thorlifter Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but with the paddles on the steering wheel for manual control as well.

    It does make sense. It's just weird to not have a stick on a high performance car. Look at it like this.....the last Ferrari that came with a manual transmission is the California. It started production in 2008 and is still being made at 6,000 cars a year. You know how many they have sold with a stick????? 14. That's it. Wiki says 3 but (to everyone's surprise) Wiki is wrong.

    The double clutch is so efficient and quick, it makes the manual slow by comparison. And since Ferrari, Lamborghini, and others are all about 1/100ths of a second for performance, they are going to use what is best.

    It's still weird though......
     
  5. gumbyk

    gumbyk Well-Known Member

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    The haven't gone automatic - they've ditched the manual clutch and retained the manual gear selection.

    They're still manual, in hat you select the gears, and it goes into the gear you select when you select it (unless its outside limitations such as red-lining the engine). In a performance car like this, you get much faster gear changes.

    The last few cars I've had have had this sort of arrangement, and I quite like it.
     
  6. Thorlifter

    Thorlifter Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Gumbyk. Perhaps I didn't explain it well enough. This is from Wiki and it does explain it pretty well.....

    A dual-clutch transmission, (DCT) (sometimes referred to as a twin-clutch transmission or double-clutch transmission), is a type of automatic transmission or automated automotive transmission. It uses two separate clutches[1] for odd and even gear sets. It can fundamentally be described as two separate manual transmissions (with their respective clutches) contained within one housing, and working as one unit.[2][3] They are usually operated in a fully automatic mode, and many also have the ability to allow the driver to manually shift gears in semi-automatic mode,[1] albeit still using the transmission's electro-hydraulics.
     
  7. Lucky13

    Lucky13 Forum Mascot

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    This, is what I want! ;) :lol:

    IMG_20161011_102923.jpg

    IMG_20161011_103248.jpg
     
  8. Thorlifter

    Thorlifter Well-Known Member

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    Ummmm, Sir, that is not an eco-friendly device. Please return to the end of the line and try again.
     
  9. pbehn

    pbehn Well-Known Member

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    I have one on my car (Audi 3.0 diesel) it works great but I never use the paddles or stick control. Even a 3.0 diesel goes scarily quickly after a few seconds of "performance driving" I suspect it is best for getting the 0-60 time down which is what everyone looks at.
     
  10. Thorlifter

    Thorlifter Well-Known Member

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    My wife's Altima 3.5 had the paddles, but I don't think we have used them once. Then again, I don't think we have raced too many people in an Altima
     
  11. pbehn

    pbehn Well-Known Member

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    The few times I have used it was not with the paddles but the stick control forward to down shift and backwards to up shift which is like a motor cycle, as I said on the road you are going too damned quick and in license losing territory after 10 seconds, the auto change can be annoying switching up or down in corners when I would prefer not to.
     
  12. Lucky13

    Lucky13 Forum Mascot

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    IMG_20161011_120212.jpg

    IMG_20161011_115843.jpg

    IMG_20161011_120047.jpg

    ;)
     
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  13. pbehn

    pbehn Well-Known Member

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    Last week I put my car in for a service and M.O.T. (yearly safety check). The courtesy car was manual everything so I tried pulling off with the hand brake on, stalled it twice slowing down but not changing down and got stuck in the middle of the road when i couldnt find reverse. Safely back in my automatic everything when it was dark I drove around with no lights for ten minutes because the people testing the lights for the check had turned the lights to manual.

    These auto gizmos are great but you get used to them way too quickly.
     
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  14. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

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    My car now has an 'electro-magnetic' handbrake/parking brake and I've had the reverse problem, looking for a non existent handle to pull up, or let down. You are supposed to just drive away as the brake automatically disengages, which is counter intuitive to someone used to a manual brake and confusing to start with :)

    I've stuck with a manual gear box, but the other half has Audi's S-Tronic system, which is just their name for a DSG transmission, in her car and it does drive very well.

    I've also driven around with no lights because service engineers have left the headlight control in manual rather than auto! They seem to put the preset radio station as I had it, but forget the lights and windscreen wipers :)

    Cheers

    Steve
     
  15. Capt. Vick

    Capt. Vick Well-Known Member

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    Aren't those paddles in formula 1 race cars and have been for a while?
     
  16. pbehn

    pbehn Well-Known Member

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    Sure, it takes a while for things to filter down. However if you only hve paddles it is a real dogs dinner, I saw a test on Ferrari tht only had paddles for forward gears and a button for reverse, doing a three point turn was like sitting an examination.
     
  17. tyrodtom

    tyrodtom Well-Known Member

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    #17 tyrodtom, Oct 11, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2016
    I wonder where future generations of race car drivers are going to come from. With stability control on most new cars how will they ever learn to really drive without it, most racing associations don't allow traction/stability devices.
    I owned very few cars with automatics, i've even went to the trouble of changing one of my cars from a automatic to a 4 speed. Even now approaching 70 years old I still drive straight shifts.

    Nowadays having a car with a straight stick is almost like having a anti- theft device installed, they can't steal it if they can't drive it..

    To me automotive blasphemy would be a 69 Camaro with a 351 Ford engine.
     
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  18. Thorlifter

    Thorlifter Well-Known Member

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    With a Challenger badge on the trunk?
     
  19. bobbysocks

    bobbysocks Well-Known Member

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    my Hyundai has an automatic I can shift. if I move the gear lever over to the side I can click it to shift up or down. I do use it more often than probably most. I will down shift going down steep hills or keep a lower gear in snowy/icy conditions. its not as much fun as a full fledged stick but not half bad either..
     
  20. Old Wizard

    Old Wizard Well-Known Member

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    My KIA has manual shift mode, but I haven't tried it yet, or sport mode. Must be getting old. .
     
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