Wiki: ja oder nein

Discussion in 'OFF-Topic / Misc.' started by tomo pauk, Feb 5, 2009.

  1. tomo pauk

    tomo pauk Creator of Interesting Threads

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2008
    Messages:
    7,990
    Likes Received:
    435
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Is the Wiki okay or it is not? After reading some posts that (credibly or not) put doubt on Wiki, I felt tempted to post this.
    So, whats your take?
     
  2. Marcel

    Marcel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    Messages:
    6,976
    Likes Received:
    570
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Bioinformatician
    Location:
    Dordrecht
    It's okay as long as you remember it's not perfect. Anyone can write an article in wiki. Some of them are really good, some are less. But it always can come in handy.
     
  3. Colin1

    Colin1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2009
    Messages:
    3,541
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    Engineer and overgrown schoolboy
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I think mine was possibly the post you mean
    You need to bear in mind that wasn't my definition of Wikipedia, it was Wikipedia's definition of itself so my 'credibility' doesn't really come into it.

    There's nothing dramatically wrong with Wiki, as an information reference tool it's OK without being excellent. Its pro's are that it is hugely wide-ranging, giving any user access to just about any information.
    Its cons are that there is an equally wide-ranging level of quality in the accuracy and/or representation of the data, from the excellent and irrefutable to the downright iffy; anyone like you or I can contribute to Wikipedia and you can submit anything of any quality without that material ever having to face a peer review. It can be corrected, again by anyone like you or I and again without any formal approval process.

    I'm quite happy to use Wiki from time to time but I would never use it as a stand-alone reference; I would cross-reference with other sources and build a picture that way.

    That's my take on Wikipedia, was it credible enough? :)
     
  4. sturmer

    sturmer Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2007
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Occupation:
    construction
    Location:
    antwerp
    well wiki is okay, but you cant take everything as a truth on that theme. even historybooks could be wrong.
    they have usefull information where you later on could deep into.
     
  5. seesul

    seesul Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2006
    Messages:
    3,519
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Zlin, Czech Republic
    Home Page:
    it´s not a bible.you gotta always compare more sources.
     
  6. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 20, 2004
    Messages:
    13,090
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Platonic Sphere
    or they have taken the sources and used their own typical language to interpret. wiki it all depends on what it covers. granted what you guys are stating is that more research is needed do not accept all of it as written truth, find out for yourself. If anything this huge design opens your mind to the possibilities at hand
     
  7. HoHun

    HoHun Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2006
    Messages:
    1,766
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Hi Tomopauk,

    >Is the Wiki okay or it is not?

    First, "Wiki" is the name of the technology, like "forum" is the name of the technology we're using here.

    However, I am sure you're asking for opinions on the Wikipedia. To that, my answer is: It's worse than useless.

    I was a great Wikipedia fan for quite a while, and a serious contributor to the German version (as well as an occasional contributor to the English one).

    There are many things irrepairably wrong with the Wikipedia, and I won't bore you with the full list. Don't believe the Wikipedia's claims about what the Wikipedia is, how it works and what its rules are ... they are not binding, not popular with the Wikipedians, often habitually disrespected, and there is no way to appeal to any kind of authority to ensure observation of these rules.

    If you look at the English or German Wikipedia, there are thousands of contributors, but millions of articles. Within individual topics, there are often just a handful of contributors, and who has the most say in the articles is not determined by level of expertise, but by assiduity and effort spent on editing articles. In fact, the thin spread of contributors over the articles leads to territorial behaviour, with people "bandogging" articles, struggling against any change that doesn't appeal their agenda, and actively discouraging interference with their article more by acid comments and general meanness than with good arguments. And when no-one acts territorial about an article, the results are not pretty either - in that case anyone can add stuff freely, and only what can be clearly disproved has a chance of being deleted. If you dream up stuff that cannot be disproved, it might stay forever in an article, especially if you put some effort into marking your territory and discouraging others too.

    As pointed out above, expertise has only very little value in the Wikipedia ... at best, someone asks for a source for you claim, but as almost every stupid thought men ever had has been put into print somewhere, there is no shortage of properly referenced nonsense in the Wikipedia. I have actually followed some suspicious claims occasionally, found that the reference did not state what was claimed in the Wikipedia, and pointed that out - with poor results as typically the territorial mob would not allow the article to be changed. And as everyone who's not part of the territorial mob stays clear of them because they know how to make your life on Wikipedia unpleasant, there is no solidarity among the "non-territorial" contributors as no-one is willing to step into the line of fire ... better to occupy one's own territory somewhere else. You hardly ever see someone change his mind in an ordinary forum discussion ... now imagine a forum in which only one opinion is allowed in every thread, and you have a pretty clear picture of the Wikipedia. (Of course, there are rules dealing with competing opinons ... however, naturally the other's opinion is always invalid and unworthy of inclusion, and one's own is not an opinion but the state of the science.)

    And then there is the question who wrote what ... on an ordinary forum, each contribution is clearly labeled with a name, and if you have been a member for a while, you already know to expect from the individual contributors. In a Wikipedia article, you can look at each individual change, but it's still close to impossible to find out who wrote what because not only you'd have to view dozens or hundreds of versions of an article, but also because someone who put something into an article might not have originated it, but simply lifted it from an older version of the article and re-inserted it because he disagreed with someone who previously disagreed with that statement, which had been in an older version of the article. (This also leads to people being very cautious about deleting something from an article ... this might start a territorial conflict with someone bandogging the article if it was his statement, and you never know ...)

    With regard to the quality of the research ... well, here is something I observed while it happened, and which is entirely impossible to recognize today: I wrote something on an aircraft topic for the German Wikipedia. This was then translated for the English Wikipedia. Surfing the net, I found an article on the same topic on a popular and well-regarded site that I fully agreed with - especially the parts that quite obviously were paraphrased from the English article that was a translation of the German article I originally wrote. All fair use so far. Not much later, the rest of the article on that external site was paraphrased for the English Wikipedia - and quoted as source for the entire article. I guess it's only a question of time before the same article will be listed as the source for the German article as well ... completely reversing the source/result chain and terminally confusing the origin of the information. With a Wikipedia article, you never know who might have dreamt up the content, and don't for a second believe that the much-vaunted "Neutral Point Of View" principle is more than an unrealistic ideal instrumentalized as a weapon against everyone else's personal opinion.

    The reason that I consider the Wikipedia "worth than useless" is that there is no guarantee that the content is inaccurate and biased, and any randomly selected article might be good or bad ... and unless you already know the facts on the topic you're reading about, you have no way to tell which it is.

    Regards,

    Henning (HoHun)
     
  8. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    41,767
    Likes Received:
    684
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    A&P - Aircraft Technician
    Location:
    USA/Germany
    Wiki is okay for a quick reference, but you have to ready to do more research to verify everything. It really is hit or miss.
     
  9. Lucky13

    Lucky13 Forum Mascot

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    36,727
    Likes Received:
    1,064
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Nightshift picker
    Location:
    A Swede living in Glasgow, Scotland
    Home Page:
    It's good enough for a starting point. If you want to know more, you go somewhere else...
     
  10. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2005
    Messages:
    47,617
    Likes Received:
    1,461
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    A retired military Navigator/ATC, FIS controller
    Location:
    Poland
    I echo Lucky13's opinion and Der Adler's one as well.
     
  11. A4K

    A4K Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2007
    Messages:
    12,162
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    The back of beyond
    Me too. come across some big errors at times, that would put someone crook on the subject if unfamiliar with it...
     
  12. tomo pauk

    tomo pauk Creator of Interesting Threads

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2008
    Messages:
    7,990
    Likes Received:
    435
    Trophy Points:
    83
    So if it's something general, it's okay, while if something more throughout is looked for, read the books :)
     
  13. Amsel

    Amsel Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,857
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Texas
    Thanks for the post HoHun. You broke it down very well.
     
  14. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2005
    Messages:
    23,199
    Likes Received:
    784
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Aircraft Maintenance Manager/ Flight Instructor
    Location:
    Colorado, USA
    If you go to Wiki and look up the YB-40, I deleted the story about Lt. Fisher and the Italian P-38 because it was BS.
    You hit the nail on the head Henning...
     
Loading...

Share This Page