Willi Reschke´s G-?, August 29th,1944

[seesul]

question why would Willi feel his pic of the G-6 ~ G-6/AS have been played with ?

Wurger points out some interesting pic points but they are also part of the very late G-6 series. JG 302 logs according to credence, affiliated German document records shows no G-10's or G-14's and sub types given to the unit before disolvemnet

~ on it goes, Reschkes flugbuch would not indicate an AS subtype but only G-6 in my understnading of viewing some in the past

Good question Erich,

Because for him the machine on the picture is not a G-6 version, but his records says pure G-6. So that´s why he told me this is a photomounting. He just can´t belive that his machine should be something else than pure G-6...but the engine cowling is not usual for G-6 version...

Erich- my question to you- did the late G-6 have a big engine cowling, even with the DB605AM engine? If so, this could explain this discussion. I repeat, I´m not a Bf-expert.

 

[Wurger]

I'm also not a Bf-expert and I think Erich is right especially he is an expert at these things.
But the pics are very interesting and you Erich have to admit it.
I've found another interesting info on G-10 version. G-10 elevators were equipped with double trim tabs but G-6 or G-14 didn't.In the third pic ( I've marked it with yellow circle in my pic) we can clearly see only a single trim tab.So if the info is true it means the Bf is not G-10.What do you think?

 

[seesul]

I'm also not a Bf-expert and I think Erich is right especially he is an expert at these things.
But the pics are very interesting and you Erich have to admit it.
I've found another interesting info on G-10 version. G-10 elevators were equipped with double trim tabs but G-6 or G-14 didn't.In the third pic ( I've marked it with yellow circle in my pic) we can clearly see only a single trim tab.So if the info is true it means the Bf is not G-10.What do you think?

Wurger,

don´t worry, Erich is a very good friend of mine and we are not fighting. I know he´s one of the best here.
But back to Willi Reschke´s machine- as I said, Willi says, he flew G-6 on August 29th 1944. But I sent him this photo and then I called him and was told, that this is not his machine as it is photomontage. But this is not and I already told why in this discussion.
So could someone tell me, what was the different between early and late G-6 version? I´d say tail (rudder),canopy, etc. BUT IS IT POSSIBLE, that the LATE VERSION HAD THE BIG ENGINE COWLING even with the DB605AM engine mounted?

Thanks

 

[Erich]

hey guys I have a small note in French from a friend back in the 1990's that says in September of 44 the I./Jg 302 was the only gruppe of JG 302 left, the Stab, II. and III./Jg 302 had disbanded in June of 44. I. gruppe flew the G-6 till September 44's end before the transfer of pilots and the staffels formed the new Fw 190A-8 and A-8/R2 equipped III./JG 301 which became the Schwere Staffel of JG 301 tasked almost solely with attacking US heavy bombers from the rear in series of 4-5 aircraft in a wedge attack.

E ~

 

[seesul]

I´m sorry now that I said whose machine it is.
I should better only show the picture and ask for the version and let it run as a technical request...8)
It would be interresting to see the answers...
My fault, next time guys

 

[seesul]

Hi Chris,

this is what you have written:
I might just missunderstanding you but by "Beulen" do you mean the bulges that are the Bf 109G varients.

Because if you are, there are bulges present on this Bf 109G in the picture. I have circled them in red.

I don´t think the area you have circled is a bulge because in the middle there´s a hole for the hand crank (engine start). Normal G-6 version and even late version has a bulge and this hole is beside this bulge (in front of this bulge). So try to compare these two pics attached. One of them is that one that you´ve posted and the second one shows a G-6 version (downloaded from Wikipedia). On my opinion it is AS version. But sure I can be wrong...
I´ve circled the holes in yellow.
Sorry Erich, I can get no sleep due to this discussion
What´s your opinion?

 

[Wurger]

Hi Roman,

From the beginning it didn't matter for me to whom the aircraft belonged to.I've got the impression that you are interested in the type of the plane but not in the "owner".Therefore I've tried to help as much as it was possible.Going through some book about BF 109G versions I've noticed some similarities to the plane in your pic.As you said these were of the cockpit conopy ,the fin and rudder.Looking at the pics I have to state that the Bf 109 was equipped with all-metal taller fin and rudder ,Earla-haube conopy and a tail wheel on the short gear,typical for later G-6.If the three pics you uploaded present the same a/c it had to be one with a small bulges on over the wheel wells ( seen in the second shot), typical for G-6 version and early G-10/G-14)All later G-10/14 had the big oblong bulges.Now, the engine cowling - G-6 with DB605A engine had the very charakteristic bulges on the fuselage for the MG 131s,in the third pic it is seen that it didn't had these ( from this view these should be clearly visible).It suggests the AS engine.Besides the area of early G-6( with the MGs bulges - uploaded pic) looked different fom the one of G-6AS I've found info that many damaged standard G-6s were converted into G-6AS version.It seems that the G-10AS looked at the area also different( uploaded pic).So,taking all the infos in to consideration I can state that the Bf 109 in these pic can be G-6AS later version or G-14AS early one.This in my opinion.Besides,I haven't found any info on the DB605 mounted with the cowling of DB605AS so far.

regards,
Wojtek

 

[Erich]

well due to the circumstances the pic is in regard terrible, you or anyone else cannot rule out the bulges neither can we specifically confirm it is an AS G-6. Lets make it perfectly clear this is Reschkes craft and he is in I./JG 302 a unit that never acquired the G-14 anything or G-10, if anything his a/c in this case could be a mock up of G-6 and AS parts, the G-6/AS never went into full production as a separate complete unit it was a rehash of other parts to make a smoother running unit and with additional MW 50 injection a redesigned engine cowling. From what I also understand from Bf 109G and K experten there was never a G-10AS version just the G-10.

 

[seesul]

Hi Roman,

From the beginning it didn't matter for me to whom the aircraft belonged to.I've got the impression that you are interested in the type of the plane but not in the "owner".Therefore I've tried to help as much as it was possible.Going through some book about BF 109G versions I've noticed some similarities to the plane in your pic.As you said these were of the cockpit conopy ,the fin and rudder.Looking at the pics I have to state that the Bf 109 was equipped with all-metal taller fin and rudder ,Earla-haube conopy and a tail wheel on the short gear,typical for later G-6.If the three pics you uploaded present the same a/c it had to be one with a small bulges on over the wheel wells ( seen in the second shot), typical for G-6 version and early G-10/G-14)All later G-10/14 had the big oblong bulges.Now, the engine cowling - G-6 with DB605A engine had the very charakteristic bulges on the fuselage for the MG 131s,in the third pic it is seen that it didn't had these ( from this view these should be clearly visible).It suggests the AS engine.Besides the area of early G-6( with the MGs bulges - uploaded pic) looked different fom the one of G-6AS I've found info that many damaged standard G-6s were converted into G-6AS version.It seems that the G-10AS looked at the area also different( uploaded pic).So,taking all the infos in to consideration I can state that the Bf 109 in these pic can be G-6AS later version or G-14AS early one.This in my opinion.Besides,I haven't found any info on the DB605 mounted with the cowling of DB605AS so far.

regards,
Wojtek

Thank you Wojtek,
your opinion is the same like mine... as you said- many standart G-6 were converted into G-6AS version. I got the same info on one German forum. After this conversion the Wnr. stayed the same, so these machines were G-6 on paper but in fact G-6AS.
One German guy, that is an DB6... engine expert told me that it´s impossible to have the machine with the big engine cowling (AS version) with the DB605A (AM) engine. There´s too many this to be modified and it was in fact impossible under field conditions.
Anyway, I sent these pics to one Czech guy, that is one of the best on Bf´s identifications and will post his result as soon as I get it. He´s first sight impression is AS version...

bye

 

[Kuba]

Dear All.

This Gustav is a AS version, G-6/AS is my guess.
Why?

There are no bulges for MG 131 belt links chutes but a streamlined fairing (seen on photos, look carefully), there is no MW filler point so G-14/AS it can't be.
The cold start device cover is in lower position, so it must be AS engine (despite there were no G-10 in august of 1944).
Lower tailwheel as well as characteristic rudder and fuselage spine paint job pattern makes me try to identify manufacturer as Mtt. Regensburg.
It fits the main form of those machines

There were NO G-10/AS version. If any Gustav flew in this configuration it was no more than field repair where AS engine was mounted instead D.
There are Erla built G-14/AS and G-10 often misidentified as G-10/AS.

all the best!
Kuba

 

[seesul]

Kuba,

thank you for your opinion. Look at the LBB « Luftwaffe Bullet Board » Forum zur deutschen Luftfahrtgeschichte

 

[Erich]

well my friend I still feel it is a G-6. the only way you will ever find out is if you Ask Willi when and ever he used his MW 50 injection and if was in combat with Mustangs in this a/c you can well bet he did..........

E

 

[Wurger]

I can see the discussion has been going on.
I agree with you Erich it is G-6 in the pics undoubtedly.The only problem is if the a/c was powered by standard DB engine or AS one.As far as the "owner" of the plane is concerned I'm not convinced if it is Willi Reschke's one,especially he doesn't confirm it at all.Unless I didn't understand some statements there.

 

[seesul]

Hi ya all,

welcome back... All the historians say it´s a G-6. 3 weeks ago I met Willi Reschke and he said that JG302 had only used G-6´s and that this pictures are photo mounting. When I told him that I got these pictures from eye witnesses Willi started to think about it...
But anyway- all the technicians- German and Czech, say, it´s either G-6/AS or G-14AS. I´ve sent these pictures to one of the best Bf- specialist in our country- Mr. Tomas Poruba, and his opinion is G-14AS or G-6AS. I´ll try to translate his letter, will ask him for a permission and put it here. But it won´t be easy for me- too much technical terms

Roman

 

[Erich]

even if it was an AS it could not be a G-14 as Willi's gruppe disbanded before they ever received G-14's, I've said this before and I will say it again. The disbandonment of the gruppe led to the Fw 190A-8 approval of the "new" III. Schwere/JG 301 in the early fall of 1944

 

[Kuba]

I do not know, what I did wrong in my first post, hope nothing really scary.

Why not standard G-6? I thought it's clear. Streamlined fairing and engine covers for a larger supercharger.
AS engine, as seen by cold start device in lower position.
Any doubts here?
Airframe with larger covers fitted with 605 A engine?


Then, MW-Anlage.
Those shots are too blury to be sure, but I think there is no battery cover behind head armour in cockpit. No filler for rear tank. No MW Anlage, I bet
That eliminates G-14/AS.

Did Mr. Willi Reschke used MW-Anlage or Notleistung, also a emergency power?
Did he describe Methanol-Wasser injection in white 6 beyond any doubts or he describes emergency power, Erich?

I think it is G-6 too. But DB 605 AS powered one. Bf 109 G-6/AS.


I can only gues by careful study of those photos. Blury, not well scanned photos.


bye
Kuba

 

[seesul]

even if it was an AS it could not be a G-14 as Willi's gruppe disbanded before they ever received G-14's, I've said this before and I will say it again. The disbandonment of the gruppe led to the Fw 190A-8 approval of the "new" III. Schwere/JG 301 in the early fall of 1944

+

You´re right Erich, Aug. 29th was Willi´s (and JG302 as well) last flight in Bf109.
But finally I can feel in your words at least 0.001% chance of AS version

btw- there was a reunion of American and German pilots in Jan Zdiarsky´s museum on this weekend. Will let you know more this week.
I got a lot of nice pics from his museum that I´d like to share but have to ask Jan for his permission...

 

[seesul]

I do not know, what I did wrong in my first post, hope nothing really scary.

Why not standard G-6? I thought it's clear. Streamlined fairing and engine covers for a larger supercharger.
AS engine, as seen by cold start device in lower position.
Any doubts here?
Airframe with larger covers fitted with 605 A engine?


Then, MW-Anlage.
Those shots are too blury to be sure, but I think there is no battery cover behind head armour in cockpit. No filler for rear tank. No MW Anlage, I bet
That eliminates G-14/AS.

Did Mr. Willi Reschke used MW-Anlage or Notleistung, also a emergency power?
Did he describe Methanol-Wasser injection in white 6 beyond any doubts or he describes emergency power, Erich?

I think it is G-6 too. But DB 605 AS powered one. Bf 109 G-6/AS.


I can only gues by careful study of those photos. Blury, not well scanned photos.


bye
Kuba

Kuba,

I agree with you. You know it´s strange- no one official documents speaks about the AS version in JG302 .
That´s why we all fight now. But these pics show something else, and no one can tell me it´s a photo mounting. I spent a lot of time on discovering these pics, I know the eye witnesses in person and I also know, that there are some 2-3 pictures more, but no one knows, where they are as they were hidding for more than 40 years. I wish I could show them... But we have to wait.
I repeat, I´m not a Bf expert, but I see a AS engine cowling on this machine.

 

[seesul]

I

Did Mr. Willi Reschke used MW-Anlage or Notleistung, also a emergency power?
Did he describe Methanol-Wasser injection in white 6 beyond any doubts or he describes emergency power, Erich?

I think it is G-6 too. But DB 605 AS powered one. Bf 109 G-6/AS.


I can only gues by careful study of those photos. Blury, not well scanned photos.


bye
Kuba

Kuba,

I asked Willi this question- Willi have never used an emergency power on Bf,Fw and Ta. Never.
And to the pics quality- it´s not a problem of scanning, the problem is a quality of the original pictures. During WW2 was usual to produce a pictures in size 5x3 cm, so very small... I´ll try to get this original picture once more again and scan it in higher resolution, with the result size of 3-10 MB. Let´s see. This is the only thing I can do, but it will take at least 2-3 weeks.

 

[Kuba]

Dear Roman,

I love Bf 109 from technical point of view and do not feel good in documents, unit looses and so on. So I really like to share my oppinions with other enthusiast. Always good to learn more about that aircraft.

Thank You and good luck in Your research!

Kuba