World War II Aircraft New Production

[turbopower87]

Hello.


I was wondering if it would be possible for someone who had enough time and money to build from scratch new airframes?

For aircraft where there are only a few remaining (or none at all ), wouldn't it be possible?

Take, for example, the Dornier Do 335. There is only one remaining. IMO, this is a crying shame.

Wouldn't it be possible to use the blueprints (and if still extant, dies and molds) to reproduce these aircraft? Heck, I bet you could even get the serial numbers to be a continuation.

Do the blueprints and records for these planes exist, or is this just wishful thinking?

 

[ONE_HELLCAT]

There are people that do that, and sometimes the original molds and dies are still available. Most of these are for museums like the one in San Diego. When I visited they were building from scratch a P-26 Peashooter. They found a company that had one of the radio components sitting in storage. They also built a new Gee Bee. These guys build the planes to the exact specifications of the original to near flyable condition.

I believe there's a company that's building new flyable Me-262s with modern engines, too. There's a video of one on YouTube

 

[turbopower87]

yes, but can you build an exact replica (besides things that are impossible or unsafe)?

The aircraft i'm asking about would be flying examples, that would look like they rolled off the factory floor in 1944.

An yes, I did see the ME 262s. Very, very cool!!!

 

[GrauGeist]

There's a few companies that I know of, that are making brand new aircraft.

One company is Flug Werk, that makes brand new Fw190s and P-51 aircraft, thier site is in both German and English.

Another would be the Texas Airplane Factory, who started the Me262 project but sold that to Classic Fighter Industries. They were planning on producing a Nakajima Ki-43 Oscar based on thier experience in restoration of a number of the Ki-43s in the past.

And of course, Legend Flyers - Stormbirds coverage (formely Classic Fighter Industries), who is producing the Me262 A-1c and Me262 B-1c and A/B1-c (these designations were given officially by Messerschmitt).

 

[109ROAMING]

Interesting links GG!

somewhat controversal subject ,IMO I can certainly see why people would want to do this and I fully respect them ,If I had the choice I'd put the money to finding the original crashed examples and getting them airworthy again

in 100 years we'll still be able to make new aircraft but the ones out there now will be lost

 

[GrauGeist]

I agree, 109, definately.

One of the problems you'll run into though, is money. Most of these new projects are based on thier ability to sell.

Everyone knows what a P-51D or a Fw190 is...but a Do335 or He280 for example, is a relative unknown as far as WWII appeal goes. Same would go for any number of aircraft that were limited in production or large in size. These most likely will never be made because of thier cost and don't rate high in public appeal.

Recovering wrecks is a noble passion, but so much time has passed now, that the chances of a successful recovery/restoration is becoming very limited. The intact P-38 they just found in the UK would be a prime example. Had they found that 20 years ago, it may have had a chance like Glacier Girl from Greenland. Restoring an original machine can have a brutal price tag, though. Especially if it's a rare one that has little in the way of available parts.

So I think we're going to be seeing more of the popular aircraft being reproduced as time goes by, because a reproduction warbird would be cheaper to make/purchase and considered as safer to operate on a regular basis.

When I say "safer to operate", I'm referring to the worries people have about the older aircraft having metal fatigue, engine failure, etc...

 

[109ROAMING]

Very true ,Some good points there

I would agree

 

[Captain Dunsel]

I was working at a GE branch that sold aircraft engines when the 262's were started. I had a conversation with some of the sales team that was working on that project, amongst others. When I asked how they thought it might look when word got out that GE was building engines for Nazi fighter planes, the looks on their faces was priceless!

I suggested that I thought the idea was worth backing, but they might consider being ready to counter any such commentary, should it arise....that got a lot of nervous nodding!

CD

 

[SoD Stitch]

I have often thought that if I became a stinkin' rich millionaire (billionaire?) I would scratch-build a two-seat Do 335 Pfeil; THAT would be cool! Of course, I may not be able to use DB 603's, I might have to use Merlins, but I still think it'd be cool. Anybody know what the average fuel consumption of a Merlin is? It's gotta be over 100 GPH.

 

[Elvis]

yes, but can you build an exact replica (besides things that are impossible or unsafe)?

The aircraft i'm asking about would be flying examples, that would look like they rolled off the factory floor in 1944.

An yes, I did see the ME 262s. Very, very cool!!!

Not sure if its going to be a "flying" example (although that would be very, very cool), but I think they're trying to do this in Finland, with a B-239.


Elvis

 

[Elvis]

I have often thought that if I became a stinkin' rich millionaire (billionaire?) I would scratch-build a two-seat Do 335 Pfeil; THAT would be cool! Of course, I may not be able to use DB 603's, I might have to use Merlins, but I still think it'd be cool. Anybody know what the average fuel consumption of a Merlin is? It's gotta be over 100 GPH.

I know this kinda goes against the subject here, but what if you were to build it 1/2-3/4 scale.
This might allow you to use a pair of Falconer V-12's for power.
Might be just as cool and an easier project to pull off.



Elvis

 

[turbopower87]

what I mean is, is it theoretically possible?

Is there an archive somewhere that has a bunch of me 109 blueprints and info?

....?

 

[Heinz]

It's possible but like anything that is manufactured it needs to be financially viable. Making every single component from scratch with plans or not is an extremely lengthy and expensive process. I think with years to come some more replicas will be needed as airframes age but for the time lets enjoy our 'genuine' warbirds and continue our tribute to the brave men who have served for their countries.

 

[model299]

what I mean is, is it theoretically possible?

Is there an archive somewhere that has a bunch of me 109 blueprints and info?

....?

ANYTHING is possible engineering wise, if you have enough money. Much harder, but not impossible if there's only one example left, as the owner of said example is usually loath to allow any degree of dis-assembly.

 

[BombTaxi]

yes, but can you build an exact replica (besides things that are impossible or unsafe)?

If you set out to build a replica 'except for things that are impossible or unsafe', you aren't setting out to build an exact replica in the first place. And the provisos you have cited will inevitably lead to historically inaccurate details being included anyway. There will be differences in avionics, for example - I believe I am right in saying that WWII fighters did not carry transponders like modern GA aircraft. Materials technology has also moved on, and while old materials and techniques can be used, in certain areas there will probably be a requirement or necessity to build with more modern stuff. And of course, I would anticipate few of these replicas carrying a fully functional armament package, so the replica would not be 'exact' in that sense, either.

 

[Clay_Allison]

I like the 75-80% replicas, good performance from a V-8 or V-6 without the need for 1000 horsepower.

 

[drgondog]

Short answer - yes, providing you have a complete set of prints and specifications or a complete airframe that you are willing to tear down to re-engineer the airframe, component by component. If you are re-engineering you must re-produce all the necessary design drawings, lines drawings and tooling designs to produce the stamping dies, drill fixtures and jigs for sheet metal assemblies, etc.

That is the easy part. Next you have to have the design documents for every GFE part (pumps, instruments, engine, etc) or OEM sources which can provide THAT part or you must build them yourself.

Next, somewhat easier if you are buildiing only one - is the tooling to stamp out contour parts, ribs, jogs in stringers, bend beams, longerons, etc. You need to build the Fixtures and Jigs to keep the airframe integrity per alignment and lines.

All of the above (except for OEM sourcing) is part of the Non-Recurring Cost at the front end of every airframe design

Some things you will NOT find as original - like a tire or hose clamp, etc so you will just have to procure the closest fit and suitable to size and spec.

I'm sure I have overlooked some stuff that may or may not be necessary (like Stability and Control, Structures and Aerodynamics Analysis) but you might assume that since the airplane once flew as designed that your 100% reproduction with respect to shape, material, fastners, castings/forgings, etc will also. You would soon find out.

I would just guess that reproducing One D0 335 would cost $50-$100 million, and if you were designing for mass production - add about the same amount to set up plant and tailored tooling, dies, fixtures, machine tools, and hire/train design, manufacturing and Service organization behind it.

 

[Clay_Allison]

I have often thought that if I became a stinkin' rich millionaire (billionaire?) I would scratch-build a two-seat Do 335 Pfeil; THAT would be cool! Of course, I may not be able to use DB 603's, I might have to use Merlins, but I still think it'd be cool. Anybody know what the average fuel consumption of a Merlin is? It's gotta be over 100 GPH.

You may have to use turboprops.

 

[drgondog]

I have often thought that if I became a stinkin' rich millionaire (billionaire?) I would scratch-build a two-seat Do 335 Pfeil; THAT would be cool! Of course, I may not be able to use DB 603's, I might have to use Merlins, but I still think it'd be cool. Anybody know what the average fuel consumption of a Merlin is? It's gotta be over 100 GPH.

The fuel consumption ranged from about 48gph leaned out in steady cruise around 1900-2300 rpm, 30-34"hg, and then about 250gph at WEP at 3000 rpm/67".

Cruise consumption and settings varied on weight and altitude for max efficiency - and depended on whether you want loiter time or range.

 

[Glider]

A new Spitfire was built around 2-3 years ago. Which goes to show that with plenty of Money anything is possible