Worst Aircraft of WWII or Before

[GregP]

I read it and still have the issue around somewhere.

To be frank, when I met him, he was having lunch at the next table (at a sailplane airport on the east coast) and we talked for about 1/2 hour. I mostly listened after asking a few questions. Perhaps he was just being amiable ... since he was in the USA, maybe he modified his real thoughts to be "politically correct" back before that term was popular.

I know he liked the way it flew, but a duration of only minutes was not what was ever going to be needed in real life. Even the Bf 109 had more staying power over Grreat Britain than the Me 163 had in combat, and that isn't saying much. Given the relative success or lack thereof, I'd say it was a wasted effort, but that it was technoligically impressive cannot be denied.

I'm sure the test pilots would not have given up the chance to fly it once they experienced the rate of climb! I bet THAT was an eye-opener. I think I'm safe to say it wasn't outclimbed for at least 10 - 15 years. The English Electric Lightning and Douglas Skyray could outclimb it. There may be others, but they weren't numerous until well into the 1970's.

Dave, thanks for the map!

 

[nuuumannn]

How long before the Defiant, Buffalo and P-39 are included...

 

[davebender]

Your ignorance of WWI is showing...

These major battles (i.e. more then 1 army corps involved) happened during the first winter of WWI on the Eastern Front. Dozens more winter battles were fought before the war ended. The worst battles (from winter warfare perspective) were probably at Sarikamish (Caucasus) and in the Alps after Italy entered the war. Serbia, Romania and West front battles in the Vosges were no picnic either.

Nov 1914.
Russian encirclement of Przemysl.

Nov to Dec 1914.
Russian invasion of East Prussia.
German counter attack pushes into Poland almost to Warsaw.

Dec 1914 to Jan 1915.
Battle of Sarikamish.

Jan 1915.
Battle of Rawka.

Jan to Feb 1915.
1st Carpathian.

Feb 1915.
A series of battles fought in East Prussia and neighboring Russian territory.

March 1915.
2nd Carpathian.

 

[FlakDancer]

The Christmas Bullet comes very close to looking like Snoopy's dog house

 

[GregP]

I wasn't going to bring up the Defiant, Buffalo, or P-39.

I think the Defiant wasn't all bad, the Buffalo was at least fun to fly if not a great fighter, and wasn't dangerous to its own pilots, and the P-39 was wonderful ... below 15,000 feet. None of the three was a killer.

The list of the worst are seriously-flawed aircraft. In the case of the Gigant, it was innovative but seriously flawed in that it should never have been employed in combat. As a civil or peacetime military airlifter it probably had no WWII equal. In a combat zone, to be caught airborne in it was death. It couldn't even crash-land from 100 feet before being shot down by almost anything that stumbled across it.

 

[FlakDancer]

P-39 was problematic but the Soviets used it and thought it was effective for what they needed. The p-63's were actually used as a live firing target pratice for B-17/B-24 crews. I think they developed bullets that broke apart easily and the nose of the airplane lit up when hit, lol. This has to make for some of the strangest what did you do in the war Grand Pa stories anywhere. Just Shoot Me | Military Aviation | Air Space Magazine

 

[tyrodtom]

Your ignorance of WWI is showing...

These major battles (i.e. more then 1 army corps involved) happened during the first winter of WWI on the Eastern Front. Dozens more winter battles were fought before the war ended. The worst battles (from winter warfare perspective) were probably at Sarikamish (Caucasus) and in the Alps after Italy entered the war. Serbia, Romania and West front battles in the Vosges were no picnic either.

Nov 1914.
Russian encirclement of Przemysl.

Nov to Dec 1914.
Russian invasion of East Prussia.
German counter attack pushes into Poland almost to Warsaw.

Dec 1914 to Jan 1915.
Battle of Sarikamish.

Jan 1915.
Battle of Rawka.

Jan to Feb 1915.
1st Carpathian.

Feb 1915.
A series of battles fought in East Prussia and neighboring Russian territory.

March 1915.
2nd Carpathian.

Tricky, tricky Dave, The seige of Przemysl began on Sept 24, 1914, lifted on Oct 11, then reestablished on Nov.9. The 1st and 2nd Carpathian battles was attempts to lift that seige.
The Battle of Rawka was Sept. 2nd thru 11th, Not Jan.

The Russian invasion of Prussia started in Aug. 1914.

 

[wuzak]

I submit the Vultee XP-54 and Curtiss-Wright XP-55.

The XP-55 being the worst of those two. The XP-54 was ok, just overweight and slow. The XP-55 was a menace!

I would also add the XP-56. Slower than either the XP-54 and XP-55 and a tad unstable. The XP-55 was, of course, at its most stable when falling, inverted, with no airspeed.

 

[GregP]

C'mon guys, start a WWI thread ... I don't know anyone who wants to be out and about in a Russian winter... unless he's out of beer or other libation of a suitable sort.

View attachment 230506

 

[tyrodtom]

Sorry Greg. Getting way OT.

Speaking of the Chrismas Bullet, he built 2, the second one also crashed and killed it's pilot.
Mr. Chrismas would have made a good used car salesman, must have been able to string out quite a tale to get that second pilot to risk it.

 

[GregP]

Yah, I have a writeup on it and it reads like a carnival barker working a crowd.

 

[Readie]

Hard to believe considering Austria, Hungary and Germany fought in exactly the same area during 1914 to 1918.

Odd , especially after Napoleon came horridly unstuck..

229 - Vital Statistics of a Deadly Campaign: the Minard Map | Strange Maps | Big Think

No one studies History it would appear.

Cheers
John

 

[GregP]

That's it! We should have exiled Hilter to Elba or Saint Helena! Presto, no more WWII.

Good one to pick up on that Readie. I admit, Napoleon hadn't crossed my mind regarding WWII, but now that you bring it up, it SHOULD have.

 

[Readie]

That's it! We should have exiled Hilter to Elba or Saint Helena! Presto, no more WWII.

Good one to pick up on that Readie. I admit, Napoleon hadn't crossed my mind regarding WWII, but now that you bring it up, it SHOULD have.

Napoleon was the forerunner to the empirical Third Reich dream Greg.
Other than the 'final solution' he attacked and beat everyone except the British and her allies.
I think that was the last time we won anything without American help....

 

[CobberKane]

There was one nation the succesfully invaded Russia - the Mongols. And they did it during the winter.

 

[GregP]

I'd sure hate to see 1,000 Mongols riding down on me, especially if I didn't have an army waiting for them. Didn't they do EVERYTHING in winter? Seems like it, when you read about them. Maybe the aboiminable snowman is really a frustrated Mongol looking for anywhere warm.

Glad Napoleon isn't around today ... then again, we DO have Kim Jong Un in North Korea ... maybe we could swap one for the other and exile Kim? If that happened, at least North Korea would get some decent sauces for their food.

 

[tyrodtom]

I think the North Koreans need some food to go with their sauces.

 

[GregP]

Good point ... maybe something other than cabbage.

 

[Marcel]

Napoleon was the forerunner to the empirical Third Reich dream Greg.
Other than the 'final solution' he attacked and beat everyone except the British and her allies.
I think that was the last time we won anything without American help....

no, you needed help from us

 

[nuuumannn]

Hi Greg, that comment about P-39 et al wasn't aimed at you specifically, but they always seem to end up in these 'Worst of WW2' categories.

I think that was the last time we won anything without American help...

You might be right, John. Although the Falklands war was won without direct US military intervention, the Brits sure made use of American generosity (I love how a thread about the worst aircraft of WW2 can reference the Mongol Hoardes!).

Here's one that defines the difference in policing in different countries.

Australia; police officer draws a pistol and fires. Bang! Bang! "I think he's dead!"

United States; police officer draws a pistol and fires. Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! click click click Pause, reload, Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! "Yep, he's dead."

Britain; Police officer stops and ponders, "What ethnic minority does he represent? Is this gender or sexual discrimination? What if he/she's a homosexual, will this result in a law suit..."