Wrecks from a B-24 or a He 111 ?

[Giorgio Pietrobon]

Hi Friends of ww2aircraft.net .
My old Witnesses and donors infortunately are all passed away. In two near but different grounds of the Dolomiti Mountains ( BL ) I am studying 2 crashes when fell a Liberator Bomber B-24D ( 19 December 1943 ) and a Heinkel 111 ( April 1945 ) , both dark green. I am searching a help useful to identify the correct aircraft of origin from the pictured relics . The Lib' was in the same mission of the last flight of the famous "Sandman" found in Alta Badia Valley ( BZ Province , Italia ) .
Thanks .

Giorgio from Treviso .

 

[mjfur]

The item in the top of your photo looks to have 1/4 turn Dzus fasteners, which were common on U.S. aircraft. Did Luftwaffe aircraft use Dzus fasteners?
Dzus fastener - Wikipedia

Losses for Dec. 43.
December 1943 USAAF Missing Air Crew Reports

42-40402 https://catalog.archives.gov/id/90908741
42-41175 https://catalog.archives.gov/id/90908229
42-73089 https://catalog.archives.gov/id/90908066
42-73421 https://catalog.archives.gov/id/90911940
74-73418 https://catalog.archives.gov/id/90911960

 

[Giorgio Pietrobon]

The item in the top of your photo looks to have 1/4 turn Dzus fasteners, which were common on U.S. aircraft. Did Luftwaffe aircraft use Dzus fasteners?
Dzus fastener - Wikipedia


Thanks MJFUR for your involvement !!!
Here some Dzus fasteners that I could find many years ago in the B-24 ' crash ground. Crew unknown. 10 USA Airmen. Or 376th B.G. or 98th B.G. Green camouflage, model D , with Ball turret. No names in the Community registers : Arabba area, BL , Italia. All Missing. Date sure of the event : 19 December 1943 , Goldener Sonntag.
No american & German documents found in 20 years about this event. Ciao . Giorgio

The famous Sandman of Ploesti low level ' raid is instead remembered also in the following sites >>>
https://www.corvara.eu/system/web/zusatzseite.aspx?bezirkonr=0&detailonr=224358393&menuonr=218512597
B-24 SANDMAN

42-40402 https://catalog.archives.gov/id/90908741
*********************

From a Liberator bomber of Goldener Sonntag 1943

 

[f for freddy]

Hi Giorgio
Took notice of your post, as I wonder if your crashed Lib could have been a RAF 148 Special Duties Squadron one. However, I see you have ID the raid it was on and just need the aircraft ID. Have you ever done any research on 148 aircraft ? They mainly flew Halifax converted bombers in the Squadron but as they reformed around the Special Liberator Flight (also known as X Flight) They had a few aged Libs as well.
Sorry for hijacking the post with a 148 question/info.
Steve A

 

[MiTasol]

Hi Giorgio
I do not know if the He-111 used Dzus or similar fasteners but you should be able to find part numbers and inspection stamps on these parts. Part number stamps are around 4-6 mm high in general and B-24 parts start with 32. If you can find some parts we can usually tell you exactly what the parts are. Note that vendor parts do not have 32... part numbers but can still often be identified as fitted to the B-24.

The inspection stamps will identify the factory the part was built at. Some parts were built at one factory but used at more than one factory so do not be disappointed if the part factory and aircraft factory do not match exactly.

For example if the B-24 you are looking at was built in Dallas the stamp will be a circle with NAA across the top and a number below and about 10mm dia. If the stamp is a combination of the letters H and T that means the part was heat treated.

 

[Giorgio Pietrobon]

Hi Giorgio
I do not know if the He-111 used Dzus or similar fasteners but you should be able to find part numbers and inspection stamps on these parts. Part number stamps are around 4-6 mm high in general and B-24 parts start with 32. If you can find some parts we can usually tell you exactly what the parts are. Note that vendor parts do not have 32... part numbers but can still often be identified as fitted to the B-24.

The inspection stamps will identify the factory the part was built at. Some parts were built at one factory but used at more than one factory so do not be disappointed if the part factory and aircraft factory do not match exactly.

For example if the B-24 you are looking at was built in Dallas the stamp will be a circle with NAA across the top and a number below and about 10mm dia. If the stamp is a combination of the letters H and T that means the part was heat treated.

 

[Giorgio Pietrobon]

Ciao to all . Thanks. After a break for health reasons here is what I discovered by studying the DZUS fasteners found in 3 different sites:
- 1st Site : the B-24 USAAF green , unknown the BG & the Crew , sure 10 KIA. Lost on 19 December 1943 in the Livinallongo Valley , BL , Dolomiti area , Italia

.
All the DZUS fasteners found in the ground have the following inscription >>> F A 6 . 1-2 . 55 ( see the 2nd picture ) .

 

[MiTasol]

Nice work Giorgio.
Did you find any part numbers on the panel itself so we can possibly narrow it down to exactly which cowl as the FA 6 1/2 - 55 is used in many locations on the aircraft (-55 is the length).

 

[Giorgio Pietrobon]

Nice work Giorgio.
Did you find any part numbers on the panel itself so we can possibly narrow it down to exactly which cowl as the FA 6 1/2 - 55 is used in many locations on the aircraft (-55 is the length).

2nd Site > The aluminium cowl , sand color in the skin , found in the crash site of the B/24D Sandman , famous for the Ploesti Raid 1 August 1943 , shows many DZUS fasteners . All are signed with punched engravings so > DZUS . PATD . C . FA 6 1/2 . 55 .
Diameter identical to precedent piece and message .

 

[Giorgio Pietrobon]

Surprise ... Also the He 111's had a type of DZUS fasteners. Here 2 old pictures found in the net .

So long . Giorgio

 

[Giorgio Pietrobon]

3rd Site : where landed a Heinkel 111 in the last hours of the 2nd W.W. , April 1945 , in route from Italy to Austria . Flight not authorised by Luftwaffe Commanders , spontaneous , with some Officiers without orders .
All survived , many materials inboard. A story very mysterious... Place : over the Livinallongo Valley .
I have only a picture published in a magazine during the 1946 year.

 

[MiTasol]

Interesting. I wonder what happened to those on board when they reached Germany.

 

[Giorgio Pietrobon]

Here a sure conclusion : Picture 1 >>> this dark green wreck is part of an engine cowl of the He 111 .
Picture 2 >>> Different dimensions - diameter - between the USA and German DZUS fasteners. And quite unlaike inscription , only a number.
Picture 3 >>> A detail : here a close view of a German rivet , very particular.

Other confrontations in the next reply.

 

[Giorgio Pietrobon]

We are at the end of this very interesting search.
Also a pair of comparisons : left the German DZUS , right the USA DZUS.
A great THANKS to all the friend active consutants : mjfur , f for freddy , MiTasol.
So long to other meetings !
Giorgio . 1943 . Treviso . Italia . Retired Teacher .
[email protected]

Istituto Tecnologico Aeronautico Paritario "A. Fleming"