WWI Aces Flying WWII Planes

[_PabloSniper_]

Hello everyone!
When I think of an ace from the First World War who flew planes in the Second World War, I only think in Ernst Udet.
Were there any others?
It must have been a real shock, going from a plane that barely reached 200km/h to one that exceeded 500km/h.

 

[Frog]

Hello everyone!
When I think of an ace from the First World War who flew planes in the Second World War, I only think in Ernst Udet.
Were there any others?
It must have been a real shock, going from a plane that barely reached 200km/h to one that exceeded 500km/h.

Sous-Lieutenant Maurice Arnoux : 5 victories during WW1.
Commandant in 1940, died on june 6, 1940 when his MS 406 confronted 7 Me 109s and was shot down.

Sergent André Dubonnet : 6 victories. A well off heir of the Dubonnet aperitive company, and also known as a flamboyant car racer, inventor and sportman.
As a Lieutenant, he flew MS 406 in june in 1940 with Groupe de Chasse GC I/2.

 

[_PabloSniper_]

Sous-Lieutenant Maurice Arnoux : 5 victories during WW1.
Commandant in 1940, died on june 6, 1940 when his MS 406 confronted 7 Me 109s and was shot down.

Sergent André Dubonnet : 6 victories. A well off heir of the Dubonnet aperitive company, and also known as a flamboyant car racer, inventor and sportman.
As a Lieutenant, he flew MS 406 in june in 1940 with Groupe de Chasse GC I/2.

Doing some research I found another one.
Theodor "Theo" Osterkamp was one of the rare cases to be an ace in two World Wars. Theo shot down 32 aircraft in the First World War, and between the Battle of France and the Battle of Britain he managed to shoot down six more enemy aircraft. He was later promoted to general and retired from flying.
Below we see from left to right, Galland, Mölders and Osterkamp.

 

[tyrodtom]

There were many, many more than that.
I've got a book 'Over the Front' a complete record of fighter aces of the US and French air services, its got short biographies of each man, and this is just of the men who were aces in WW1.
Just opened to a random page, Harvey Weir Cook, flew with 94th aero, 7 victories, died in 1943 in a P-40 in New Zealand.
another page, Eugene Seeley Coler, 16 victories WW1, also served with the 319 Bomb Group in WW2.
There has to be hundreds of them, and that's just from the ones who made ace in WW1.
There are so many with noted WW2 service but no details, I can't list them all

 

[tyrodtom]

Lionel Alexandre Pierre DeMarmier Lt. 6 victories WW1, fought in the Spanish civil war, and was recalled to French service for WW2, commanded a Polish squadron, shot 3 Luftwaffe aircraft, escaped to England joined the Free French as a Lieutenant Colonel, died in a aviation accident 1944.
There is much more to these hero's than this book covers, it gives pretty good details of their WW1 service, but just some details of their life after WW1.

 

[Frog]

Lieutenant Amand Pinsard : 27 victories flying a black painted Spad VII.
As a Commandant, he led the Groupe de Chasse 21 flying a black and silver painted MS 406. Général de Brigade under the Vichy regime, Condemned with a term of 10 years in prison, liberated in 1947.

Sous-Lieutenant Marcel Émile Haegelen : 22 victories.
As a reserve Lieutenant Colonel, commanded the Bourges airfield defense flight (1 victory) flying a Curtiss H-75.

Sous-Lieutenant Marius Jean Paul Elzéar Ambrogi : 14 victories.
Deputy commander of Groupe de Chasse I/8 flying Bloch 152 (1 victory on a Do 17).

Sous-Lieutenant Hector Eugene Joseph Garaud : 13 victories.
Died with the rank of Commandant in a flying accident (Curtiss H-75).

Capitaine Marcel Anatole Hugues : 12 victories.
As a Lieutenant Colonel, returned from retirement to command Groupe de Chasse II/5 (Curtiss H-75).

Capitaine Adrien Louis Jacques Leps : 12 victories.
Deputy commander of Groupe de Chasse 21 (MS 406).

Adjudant André Julien Chainat : 11 victories.
2IC of Groupe de chasse III/6 (MS 406).

Lieutenant Auguste Joseph Marie Lahoulle : 10 victories.
Served in North Africa during WW2, retired as a General.

Lieutenant Jean André Pezon : 10 victories.
Commanded coloniale n°2 flying Potez 25 in 1940.

Sous-Lieutenant Arthur Marie Marcel Coadou : 9 victories.
Commandant of Groupe de Chasse I/2 in 1940 (MS 406).

Sous Lieutenant Marcel Marc Dhôme : 9 victories.
With the rank of Commandant; in command of Groupe de Chasse I/55 (Dewoitine 520).

 

[Sabrejet]

Many moons ago I was perusing the flying log books at RAF Museum, Hendon and was amazed to see one for a flyer who had learnt to fly in WW1 and one of his last aircraft flights was in a Meteor, just post-WW2. I think he was a staff officer by that time but still was earning his flying pay.

 

[tyrodtom]

There are so many I can't possibly do them all justice. Maybe hundreds just among the French and American Air Service alone.
A remarkable number that stayed in aviation, civil or military, died in the 20's and 30's.

Capt. Joseph Heurtaux , 21 victories ,became inspector of fighters in WW2, then after the fall of France, joined the resistance, ended up in Buchenwald, survived and promoted to General after liberation.

So many great stories have to be out there, surely someone has wrote a book about these indomitable men, or if they haven't they should.

 

[Barrett]

Sidebar:

Excellent thread, gents.
When I was secretary of the aces assn I noted that the WW I guys wished they could have flown WW II aircraft (though I think a few actually did) while many WW II guys, who grew up with pulp comics, wanted to fly Great War machinery.

 

[GreenKnight121]

It must have been a real shock, going from a plane that barely reached 200km/h to one that exceeded 500km/h.

Not really - as most of those who flew in both wars had been flying regularly between the wars, and thus had experienced the transition from fabric-covered biplanes to metal-skinned monoplanes year-by-year with the aircraft being replaced every few years.

Except, of course, those like RN FAA pilots who were still flying fabric-covered biplanes that were not much faster than WW1 ones from the decks of HM's carriers in WW2 (Swordfish)!

 

[special ed]

I will submit the account of Nino Cochise who appeared on the Groucho Marx show in 1957. Not being computer savvy, if interested one must go to you tube and find "You bet your life #57-03 (Oct 10 1957)" I saw this at that time and being an aviation nut remembered the episode, I finally got around to the internet to find the story. Some accounts on line claim fake and others not. Since he lived to be 100, his story could be possible. Any comments?

 

[SaparotRob]

Any comments?

"Say da' secret woid and win ten bucks."

 

[Peter Gunn]

"Say da' secret woid and win ten bucks."

I thought it was a hundred dollars. Not to rain on your parade or anything...

 

[SaparotRob]

Me research before I post? It's like you don't even know me.

 

[NZTyphoon]

Hello everyone!
When I think of an ace from the First World War who flew planes in the Second World War, I only think in Ernst Udet.
Were there any others?
It must have been a real shock, going from a plane that barely reached 200km/h to one that exceeded 500km/h.

Dr. Eric Mix: 3 WW I claims (not strictly an ace, but still worth mentioning) and a further 8 - 13, WW 2 (according to Wikipedia)

Further information on Mix's E-3/4

 

[tyrodtom]

I think we've still barely scratched the surface on this subject.
Just think if you were 18 when WW1 ended you were just 39 when it started again.
Though 39 was considered too old for fighter pilots in the 30's-40's era, there are plenty of other aviation jobs that needed men, and you always have those rare men that just keep doing their job no matter what their age.

For the ones that stayed in the aviation field after WW1, the biggest reduction of men came in the 20's.
When you read the individual's stories, a incredible number of them died from aviation mishaps of every variety during the 1920's.

 

[nuuumannn]

Air Vice Marshal Park, RAF although he didn't engage in combat in his Hurricane, he potted about in one during his tenure at C-in-C 11 Group Fighter Command, including flying sorties over Occupied France before the Dunkirk Operation Dynamo. He found it quicker than travelling between his airfields and Fighter Command HQ at Uxbridge in the Hurricane. During the Great War he flew Bristol F.2bs with 48 Sqn and achieved 14 aerial victories. This is a replica of the Hurricane Park flew about the place in 1940. His Hurricane wore the code OK-1 and when he went to Malta he had another coded OK-2.

_DSC7271

 

[Admiral Beez]

Air Vice Marshal Park, RAF although he didn't engage in combat in his Hurricane, he potted about in one during his tenure at C-in-C 11 Group Fighter Command, including flying sorties over Occupied France before the Dunkirk Operation Dynamo.

Goodness. Imagine being Park's wingman - keep him alive at all costs.

What's next, will (then) Captain William Halsey Jr. land his own Grumman F3F fighter on USS Saratoga?

"In 1934, the chief of the Bureau of Aeronautics, Navy Rear Admiral Ernest King, offered Halsey command of the aircraft carrier USS Saratoga, subject to completion of the course of an air observer. Halsey elected to enroll as a cadet for the full 12-week Naval Aviator course rather than the simpler Naval Aviation Observer program. "I thought it better to be able to fly the aircraft itself than to just sit back and be at the mercy of the pilot," said Halsey at the time. Halsey earned his Naval Aviator's Wings on May 15, 1935, at the age of 52, the oldest person to do so in the history of the U.S. Navy. While he had approval from his wife to train as an observer, she learned from a letter after the fact that he had changed to pilot training, and she told her daughter, "What do you think the old fool is doing now? He's learning to fly!" He went on to command the USS Saratoga"