Yo Basket! (and other Brits)

Discussion in 'Personal Gallery' started by comiso90, Oct 19, 2007.

  1. comiso90

    comiso90 Active Member

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    I took this photo on the "hill" that over looks Edinburgh many years ago (1990). Is it still relevant?

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  2. plan_D

    plan_D Active Member

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    They've practically got it. But they still like our tax money ..
     
  3. Gnomey

    Gnomey World Travelling Doctor
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    They have devolution but not indepedence. I'm against it but there are plenty of twats who are for it (although apparently it is only ~30% of the population). In all likelyhood it will happen but hopefully I won't be here when it does...
     
  4. comiso90

    comiso90 Active Member

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    Sounds like Quebec and Canada
     
  5. mkloby

    mkloby Active Member

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    Out of curiosity - Why do you oppose independence?
     
  6. Gnomey

    Gnomey World Travelling Doctor
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    There are many sound reasons I have heard for it but I personally think that it is economically not viable especially if we stay outwith the EU (which would be likely until membership is accepted). Besides that once it has happen everyone will want the union again. People have tried to convince me that independence is good but they have failed and I will not vote SNP in the near future...
     
  7. The Basket

    The Basket Well-Known Member

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    Why want independence?

    Scotland takes a lot less tax cash than some regions of England. And pays its way with oil. Can't see the pix yet so will discuss later.

    Independence is something I don't understand but its all about flags and dodgy economics.
     
  8. Clave

    Clave Well-Known Member

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    We are not that big a nation to start splitting up again imo...

    I see the need for local rule, and even local parliament, but for Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland to become independent countries would not be a good idea. I mean, just think of the logistics of having 4 separate Armies, Navies, and Air Forces!...
     
  9. The Basket

    The Basket Well-Known Member

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    Got to see the Pix. Scotland does have home rule so no harm no foul. But not full independence.

    But Comiso me old chum...when has graffiti been politically relevant...unless you mean the writing is on the wall.

    As an English living in Scotland I see the issue and am no Jock basher. Although if Scotland does go independent and starts ethnic cleansing then I am probably for the chop!
     
  10. mkloby

    mkloby Active Member

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    Northern Ireland isn't going to become independent - it's going to become part of the Republic!

    I certainly don't know the specifics - but that situation (receiving less tax monies and "paying its way with oil") does not seem to be very beneficial to the nation as a whole. I'm sure that it goes beyond simply flags and economics that you may disagree with.
     
  11. The Basket

    The Basket Well-Known Member

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    May?
     
  12. mkloby

    mkloby Active Member

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    Please let me rephrase - what is the economic argument for an independent Scotland, and why do you disagree with it (which I am assuming since you said "dodgy economics.")
     
  13. The Basket

    The Basket Well-Known Member

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    The main independence party in Scotland is called the Scottish Nationalist Party. Not the Scottish Good Economics Party.

    Therefore Independence is driven by nationalism and not economics. Simplistic but gets the point.

    Economics is just statistics which are whatever you make them. To say Scotland would be richer in the future can be no more accurate than saying Scotland will be poorer. No one knows. But the nationalist agenda is the driving force. Since an independent Scotland has no track record then it can only be compared to other countries. Which are not really comparable.
     
  14. plan_D

    plan_D Active Member

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    Let them get their independance - every freakin' tribe in Europe and the world should get their independance. Split England up to its old countries again.

    It's like the Irish bollocks - "it's ours, it's ours" ...England has held it for freakin' 500 years. How long do we have to be there until someone admits it's ours?

    Let Scotland go, let 'em rot - freakin' idiots live off England, as does Wales.

    ...be serious, if you're going to start talking like that how about East Prussia going back to Germany; it was a seperate entity 'owned' by Poland that Brandenburg took. How about spliting Germany back up to Saxony, Magdeburg, Brandenburg, Kleve etc. Abolish the Netherlands and recreate the Dutch Republic - give Austrian Netherlands back to Austria. What about the Spanish Netherlands, give them back. And give Macedonia, Albania and Bosnia back to Greece, and Sicily. What about Italy, split that up too...give some back to the Holy Roman Empire.

    What people should do is just face the map of today; unless you're willing to declare war and change the freakin' map like it's been done thousands of times in the past. Why should Scotland get its independance? We beat 'em, they signed the Act of Union in 1707 - it's ours.

    And Northern Ireland back to Eire - well we own that too. Boll*cks to religious feuding; Prussia managed to accompany Catholics, Lutherins and Calvanists in 18th Century all in one country so Northern Ireland can bloody well make do as well.
     
  15. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    Tell us how you really feel pD... :lol:
     
  16. plan_D

    plan_D Active Member

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    Well, English peasants didn't clean their sh*t covered faces and march into battle behind some poncey (probably foreign) noblemen on horse to fight those blue faced red headed skirt wearers just so some wobbly gobbed arse face can give it back 300 years later.

    'English' nobility has hailed from practically every part of freakin' Europe anyway; Henry VIII alone gives evidence to the fact that the nobility of England cummed down the throats of most of Europe - Anne of Kleves (hmmm...Kleve isn't in England) ; Catherine of Aragon (Wonder where that is?) ...England spent the last thousand years being kicked around and kicking around Europe; got pulled out of wars with France because some Hanoverian ponce couldn't bare the thought of losing his estate in Germany. And do we complain? do we buggery...half of us are too p*ssed to give a ****.
     
  17. The Basket

    The Basket Well-Known Member

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    And I never thought I could support Scottish nationalism!
     
  18. mkloby

    mkloby Active Member

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    pd - You have some good arguments. Always love the gentle use of words that you are well known for. First - what is the exact meaning of "bollocks?" An F-bomb? S? Combination of the two?

    National sovereignty is quite a dilemma. Hardly ever does one support the same side of the coin in all conflicts, and an individual's stances often make him appear a hypocrite. Sides are often drawn along personal biases and culture. One of the biggest problems with the concept of national sovereignty is the NATIONAL part. You can have a textbook definition of a nation, but that does little good if the people themselves do not see themselves as a separate and distinct identity. Also, the line must be drawn somewhere - which I feel was one of your points, although worded somewhat, err... differently. I've read some stuff before about Northumbrians wanting independence and such. However, it would appear as though the vast majority of those living there do not define themselves as a dinstinct nation compared to England as a whole. I could be wrong. That appears to be a different case from Scotland, and even more so Northern Ireland. If a referendum is held, and the majority votes to join Eire, then the UK already agreed to such a peaceful outcome. I doubt the UK would attempt to oppose the union by force - so your point of declaring war like in the times of yore is dead in a way.

    All that said - It's easy to view another nation's internal relations as an outsider and CLAIM to be unbiased. I'm the first to admit i'm prejudiced as all hell, and support opposing sides of the ideology in different cases. If any part of the US wanted independence, I'd for sure be on the side of the Union.
     
  19. plan_D

    plan_D Active Member

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    Bollocks are your nuts ! And in the terms I used it; "...like the Irish sh*t."

    You are right, nationality is one of the most complicated things on this planet. The line being drawn is exactly my point; there's so many parts of Europe (and the World) that have been created by conquest or politics - without any ethnic study, or care for that matter.

    The mid to late '30s when Germany was laying claim to several parts of Europe because of ethnic backgrounds, or previous holdings. The claim they made on the 'Polish Corridor' could be argued for and against on both counts. The claim was made on previous ownership, which was a valid claim - I suppose.
    The Sudetenland claim was based on the ethnic Germans who lived there; yet again a valid claim. But (practically) all of Czechoslovakia on previous ownership could have been demanded by Poland, Germany and Austria.

    Kaliningrad today is the old Konigsberg - Germany, really, could claim to own that. But it's almost 100% imported Russian. Who owns what, and where they come from is all a matter of debate - and personal bias. As, thankfully, mkloby, you have noticed between the colourful language there's a map of Europe for every era... but there needs to be a line.

    If Scotland became independant, they would fail as a nation. That's not just some personal bias, it will happen. Let it happen.

    And I am bias, if it were up to me the post-American independance should be re-gained. The American independance was the best thing to happen to the British Empire .
     
  20. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    Yeap that is where my Grandmother is originally from. When it was actually still within German borders.
     
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