Ta 152 Ha aerial victories

[GregP]

I don't really understand why any Fw 190D would be fitted with a Ta 152 tail unless it was intended as a fitment test. The existing tail on the Fw 190D units could put the airplane into a stall, and a new tail would not help the wing make it turn or pitch any better than the existing tail. The tightest turn is to pitch until just before a stall departure. About all it could accomplish is to reduce the stick force if the mechanical advantage was better, and that could be done with the existing tail if you changed the linkage advantage.

So, I'm struggling to understand why anyone would change an Fw 190D tail for a Ta 152 tail. What would be the point? Again, other than to check fitment.

 

[bf109xxl]

The vertical tail was considerably widened to give additional directional stability - this widened type tail was also incorporated in some of the very late model BMW 801-powered Fw 190 production aircraft as mentioned previously.

from "Focke-Wulf Fw 190" by Malcom V. Lowe in Osprey Production Line to Front Line Series Vol.5, 2003, p.93

 

[bf109xxl]

I think fw190 d9 of jg26 brown 4 got them the rest were

The last production model of the Fw 190 series was the A-9, which was fitted with the uprated BMW 80lTS/TH engine, nominally of some 2000 hp. This was supplied (as with previous models) as a complete power 'egg', with all its fittings, and could theoretically be interchanged with the previous BMW 801D-2. It also had a larger oil cooler and oil tank, protected by a thick armoured ring ahead of the engine (previous engine models were also protected, but usually with thinner armour). Some A-9 models also sported a rounded-top cockpit canopy as fitted to a number of the dedicated ground attack Fw 190s. Some examples are known to have been fitted with a wide-chord vertical tail resembling that fitted to the Ta 152. The type's armament remained similar to the Fw 190A-8.

from "Focke-Wulf Fw 190" by Malcom V. Lowe in Osprey Production Line to Front Line Series Vol.5, 2003, p.59

 

[rochie]

see here

The Fw 190A-9 of Siegfried Baer, 5.Staffel, II./JG301, in Detail....

That'll be cool.

ww2aircraft.net

further reading here

Fw190D-9s with the Ta152 'long tail'...

I know what you're thinking - "not this again..." Hopefully this is just a quick question, but who knows. Sometime in the near future I'll be making a start on Eduard's 1/48 D-9 'late' kit, which includes fuselage options for both the standard and legendary 'long tail' variants. To the best of my...

www.britmodeller.com

 

[GregP]

That is a a neat pic, but there is no way I can see for anyone to confirm the caption.

The most unbelievable is number 6. They look at basically a blurr and conclude is is an Erla-built Bf 109? I can look at it it and MAYBE see a Bf 109, but I'd be hard-pressed to identify anything else, much less where it was built, from the photo. All I can really see is it MIGHT be an airplane and likely, if it IS an airplane, have a 3-bladed prop.

Number 2 says it is a radial engine Fw 190 with a Ta 152 tail, but the picture has nothing like the amount of detail to confirm that. The two tails are very similar with the Ta 152 having a bigger fin in proportion. But the picture shown doesn't allow you to see that in enough detail to determine anything for sure. The fin appears larger, but the horizontal stab appears to be damaged or has portions missing.

One could make some possible claims, but you can't really determine much from the photo that can be substantiated. It would be different if the caption was put there from identification on the ground, but that photo by itself doesn't lend itself to making that assumption.Where did the photo come from? Curiosity only. Not making any statement.

 

[rochie]

take from it what you will, i was just posting stuff i remember seeing

 

[GregP]

You misunderstand. I'm not questioning whether or not the pic is genuine.

I'm asking if the pic was stand-alone, maybe off of ebay or something, or if it came from a book or publication and was described by intelligence personnel.

There's no intent to discredit your personal narrative. I was just asking if the pic is stand-alone or what document it came out of.

Cheers.

 

[rochie]

You misunderstand. I'm not questioning whether or not the pic is genuine.

I'm asking if the pic was stand-alone, maybe off of ebay or something, or if it came from a book or publication and was described by intelligence personnel.

There's no intent to discredit your personal narrative. I was just asking if the pic is stand-alone or what document it came out of.

Cheers.

sorry Greg, didn't mean that to read like it does, no offence taken on my part.

not sure where Wayne got that pic from, from what i have read there are 3 documented Dora's with Ta152 tails, but how and where i do not know !

 

[GregP]

Thanks. I'm still wondering why. But oftentimes, modifications like this are related to other considerations.

No real statement ... just wondering.

 

[mjfur]

Late-war variant Fw 190 Dora with Ta 152 tail (Eduard kit Fw 190 D-9 Late ProfiPACK)

falkeeins.blogspot.com

 

[GregP]

Yes. I don't question that it could be done. I question why it WOULD be done. The photo isn't clear enough to definitely tell if that is a Ta 152 tail, but what would be the benefit of doing it? Surely there would have to be some reason for changing a tail that already can stall the aircraft and was never known for directional snaking. If you're not trying to improve directional stability or make some change in the control authority, there is no reason to change the tail.

Just wondering why.

My question above was not whether the photo was bogus, but rather what document it came out of, or was it a stand-alone photo that has no real historic data of when, where, and why it was taken.

C'mon, this isn't rocket science. Why change a tail unless there is a desire to change the controlability of the aircraft? The Fw 190D was already a very good airplane and I am just wondering what they were trying to achieve by changing the tail.

Maybe nobody knows, and that's fine. Am I the only one wondering why they would do this? I'm not trying to dispute anything. I'm just thinking about why, with the war winding down in a bad manner for the Germans, this was deemed important enough to waste effort doing. Nothing more.

 

[mjfur]

The webpage I posted above indicates that making a single tail that could fit both aircraft was an effort to standardize production.

 

[GregP]

Seems as likely an answer as any.

Appreciate the post!

Cheers!

 

[Demopan78]

I wonder if JG301 dora 9's scored any aerial kills

 

[Demopan78]

III./JG 301 accepted 6 TA 152 H-0's. operational flight on Feb. 7, 45, Keil flew # 3. Feb 9th Stabschwarm flew it's first mission. 2 Ta's flew on Feb 14th - Black 2 and Red 1. Feb. 21st a B-17 was claimed shot down by Stabschwarm. March 1st Keil claims a P-51 flying Red 1. W. Reschke joins Geschwaderstab March 13th in Black 3. L. Bracht logs indicate a ground attack op 1 kg frags. on April 1st. April 9th 7 Ta's on hand. Keil takes on 4 Mustangs in # 15 flying in Stabschwarm III./JG 301, Ta 152.

well some more info for you ~

on 4th of april 1945 2 P-51Ds of 355th FS were shot down by long nosed fw190D-s over ludwigslust, (it could possibly Be Ta-152s from JG 301) but its likely by D-9s, but there were no luftwaffe mentions of shooting down P-51s