Hi Tomo
Perhaps developing one design of 25 tons, (featuring cannon, engine, transimision, radio, sights -just like any decent tank) would be less a task, than to develop two 20 ton types, plus the Nbfw?
Well, not really.
Firstly, the designs you are referring to were not begun in 1935, it was sometime after that. Cutting edge technology for the germans in 1935 was the MkI and MkII, which they were both inadequate, and tried to compensate for with their brekthrough and multi-turretted jobs. However these were recognized as probable failures and pretty much abandoned, because they would not fulfil the mobility requirements that would be required in the Guderian style of warfare. There were reasons why nations messed about with cavalry tanks and infantry support tanks and the like in the 1930s, and that in part was because of the limitations on the technology. The other great limitation, was in the area of technique.
In the case of the germans, in the mid '30s, they had the technique, but they lagged in the design area. You cannot just wave a magic wand, and will this issue to go away. Granted, if the germans had been able to step up to the plate in 1935 and produce a world beating battle tank in 1935-7 they would have been pretty formidable, but the weak link here is their technology. Granted the germans made very impressive strides in a small space of time, but in 1935 that technological edge just wasn't there.
30tons?
Since the 24 cal barrel of early Pz-IV was still cca 1m short to protrude, just how much the 36 cal barrel would? A foot?
I thought your original supposition said 25-30 tons, but in any event the heavy tanks of the era, being produced just after1935 were all in the category of 30 tons. But if you want to narrow your type down to just 25 tons, that's fine.
I don't know the difference or any details about this 75/36 gun you are referring to and the standard PAK 75/40. I am guessing it was a non-existent, fictional gun (but I will check later at home) However, at only 4 calibres short of the 75/40, which was eventually fitted to the Mk IV, with a pronounced overhang (more than 1 foot judging from photographic evidence). Moreover with the fitting of the 74/40 L-43 on the F2 subtype, the weight of the mkIV had increased to 23.6 tons, and eventually increased to 26 tons. So essentially what you are saying is that you want to produce a MkIV f2 in 1935. Quite apart from the fact that in 1935 this was quite beyond the germans even conceptually, the F2 was never invulnerable. It was a much feared tank in the desert, but it was defeatable by the 2pdr and 6 pdr ATGs. Given that there would many fewer F2s than the smaller, earlier tanks, it follows that these fewer tanks are going to end up more vulnerable than the historical tanks that were fielded. We are back to where we started, producing heavier tanks means fewer tanks, fewer tanks means a more vulnerable formation.
We know in 1935 that 7,5cm of 45-50 cals is needed to supplant the 36 cal one, so we develop it.
The trouble is, that in 1935, it was not known that the 37mm and 50mm weapons would prove to be insufficient. Where would the germans deduce that these weapons were inadequate. The tanks that defeated these wepons…the matildas, the t-34s, the Somuas and Char Bs were not even in service. As far as I know the germans did not anticipate these heavier types. Its possible that they may have, but then simply saying, "we will develop it" fails to take into account the costs of such development. And increased cost means decreased numbers, and decreased numbers means less tanks. If we abandon development of the 37mm and the 50mm weapons, this means Germany fights the first two years of her war with nothing bigger than a 200mm tank mounted weapon
What feature makes 25 ton a fantasy design for 1939?
Nothing, except that the germans did not possess a design, a philosophy even for a mobile battle tank to suit that bill. The nearest thing they had was the mk IV which did not enter service in any great numbers until after 1939. The reasons for the concept being a fantasy design are not because it was technically infeasible, clearly it was, but rather because the technology at that strategic moment, along with the foresight to do it simply did not exist. Moreover, when the germans did eventually get around to organizing a design brief for something similar, it still took them the best part of four years to refine the design. So yes, it is something of a fantasy design I am afraid
1942??
This comment was made in the context of building a cut down 45 ton Tiger. Given that the initial design studies for the real Tiger began in 1937, and the tiger did not enter operational service until the latter part of 1942, yes, it is reasonable to assume a 4-5 year lead time for your 45 ton mini Tiger. For your 25 ton tank, there are still going to be delays, because many of the technologies you are looking either don't exist or are otherwise inadequate. My guess is that to develop a 25 ton tank with along barrelled 75mm weapon is going to take rather longer than the historical short barrelled MkIV. It took the MkIV about 3 years to iron out all its kinks, so a long barrelled version of the same thing is going to take at least as long, coupled with the fact that the MkiV was started in 1936, and you want to start in 1935. So again we are back to the problem of inadequate training and equipment. You will not receive the "wonder tan" until 1939-40, even under the most optimistic estimates. This means you will go to war with just the MkI and MkII, and less of them
The thread says 'You run the army'
So, that means what, you are going to teach the lions to eat grass, or the leopard to lose its spots? come on, whilst you could be in charge of the army, it is hardly feasible or reasonable to argue that everything about the german army is going to change at your behest. Even Adolph himself would not attempt that
Every what-if is pure speculation, since a single thing is not likely to be proved. So we disagree.
This is the answer to give, when one doesn't have an answer to give. It can be approached from the point of referenc of a pure daydream, but in reality the excercise can be undertaken as an extrapolation of the possibilities, based on the known historical outcome. In miltary think tanks across the world, participate in this sort of navel gazing all the time. this kind of speculation and testing goes on ad infinitum, but one simply does not say, well we disagree and that's okay. Are you refuting these numbers, If not, what impact would increasing the size and complexity of german tanks have on the numbers available