Plus the Manchester Stirling and Halifax which were due to replace the 7 you mention and flew in the mentioned period, that is 10 in total, how many is "much" if 10 is "not much"
1941-1943: the best 2-engined bomber in service
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Admiral Beez
Major
Manchester sure (I excluded it due to small production run), but aren't Stirling and Halifax four engined and thus outside the scope of this thread? But if you need the nitpicker's affirmation I'm good.
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Of course they are, because basically a bomber was defined by payload and payload required more engines, only the Stirling was designed as a four engine bomber and the Mosquito is actually outside the time frame, it didn't get into service in time, otherwise it would be a possibility as a "pick" but in my opinion no where near what the Wellington did because it was there at that time in large numbers.
Admiral Beez
Major
The Wellington had strong potential, especially in the later torpedo strike role, nothing else carried twin fish. Cancel the Albemarle, Beaufort, Hampden and Whitley, direct this capacity to more Wellingtons and advance the development of the torpedo variant. The British understood capacity maximization in their single seat fighters, with focus on one type, the twenty thousand Spitfires, supported by bookends of Hawkers. But on twin engined bombers it was a nation of penny packet shopkeepers, with every firm getting a tiny piece of the Bomber Command pie. Instead pick the best, make the best.
They would still have been replaced by 4 engine types apart from the Wellington which occupied a go to niche of range and internal capacity for all sorts of things, as well as use as a trainer.
Admiral Beez
Major
Sure. As the four engined heavies start entering service we reallocate the now greater number of Wellingtons to Coastal Command, North Africa and the I/PTO. Until they change to 20mm cannons the twin .303s on the Ki-27 and Ki-43 may have trouble shooting down the robust and well armed Wellington.
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Admiral Beez
Major
Me too. A hundred Beauforts at Singapore would have contributed nicely.... provided other deficiencies in command, strategy and air base location, support and defence are addressed. Otherwise keep them out.
Shortround6
Major General
What a lot of nits to pick here.
"The British understood capacity maximization in their single seat fighters, with focus on one type, the twenty thousand Spitfires,"
Plus over 1000 Defiants, (granted not single seat).
The Hawkers were NOT book ends by design/intent. 3300 Typhoons built. Intended to replace the Spitfire but due to failures of both the engine (or engines-plural) AND aerodynamics it could not do the job. Left the Spitfire by default. Fortunately Joe Smith and crew were able to stretch the Spitfire considerably.
The British were practically (or actually?) panic buying in the late 30s. Many planes were ordered off the drawing board and given production contracts. Hard to pick winners so multiple choice was the fall back position as insurance so at least some of the designs would have potential (actually work).
The first Whitley flew March 17th 1936
The First Wellington flew June 15th 1936.
915 hp engines.
Hampden first flew June 26th 1936
First Beaufort flies Oct 15th 1938 (you forgot the Botha)
First Ablemarle flies March 20th 1940
First Mosquito flies Nov 25th 1940.
Would have been great if the British could have waited until the end of 1940 to make their decision.
In Jan 1938 the British had 57 bomber squadrons in the UK.
7 if them had Blenhiems
3 had Whitleys
The rest had stuff that made those two look like wonder weapons from a science fiction movie.
No 51 squadron was still flying
Starting production and then stopping for a number of months was not a luxury the British could really afford in the late 30s.
Not to mention that all the twin engine bombers were NOT designed to do the same thing. Beauforts were lousy strategic bombers. Whitleys would have been lousy torpedo bombers.
as for the Wellington??
Really got a boost in longevity when fitted with Hercules engines in early 1941 (almost 5 years after it first flew) and the Torpedo bomber version (with Hercules XVIII engines) doesn't show up until late 1942? A bit late to cancel Whitely and Hamden production as they were either already out of production or winding down.
Carrying two torpedoes with a pair of 1675hp engines is one thing, carrying a pair of torpedoes with two 1000hp Pegasus engines is another.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
British aircraft, perhaps, but the He111 and Ju88 did.
Allegedly, according to some Russian authors, DB-7C and A-20G carried two torpedoes in the Baltic and in the Black Sea. I've never seen a photo, however.
P-39 Expert
Non-Expert
Torpedos carried internally?
Externally. Special hardpoints, called most (bridge), were attached to the fuselage. The standard loadout was 1 torp on the starboard "bridge". 2 torps only when the target was within short range.
Standard loadout (aircraft of 51st MTA - mine and torpedo air regiment - of the Baltic Navy):
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
I'm looking at the pictures and I'm wondering if maybe the U.S. could have gotten some torpedoes (lend lease) FROM the USSR. I bet theirs worked.
Good question. According to Russian sources, the Soviet 45-36 family of torpedoes was born after the careful studies of three Italian types, including F200 (45cm) which was designated F5W in Luftwaffe. 45-36H entered service in 1938 and there was intensive development in the pre-war period.
In 1941 45-36AH was equipped with an improved stabilizer AH-42 which allowed to increase speed up to 300 km/h and altitude to 55 m.
In August 1941 another stabilizer was designed which could give the possibility to use the torpedo in shallow water, from 15 m. It was made of wood. Sounds familiar, isn't it? The designer was some major Sagaiduk who served in Vladivostok. One can suspect that the invention "leaked" from Japan.
I'm pretty close to that. I'd say:
1) DB-7 / A-20
2) Pe-2
3) Ju 88
4) Martin 187
5) B-25
Same honorary mentions lol
My criteria would be on survive-ability, impact on the war, bombing accuracy.
Mosquito might be starting to take over by the end of this time frame but I don't know the history of the aircraft by then. I'd also mention Beaufighter though it's in a slightly different niche, it did do a lot of bombing and strafing
Mosquito might be starting to take over by the end of this time frame but I don't know the history of the aircraft by then. I'd also mention Beaufighter though it's in a slightly different niche, it did do a lot of bombing and strafing
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