50s aircraft that originated during World War II

GrauGeist · Jan 29, 2022

special ed said:
The original XF-86 design and mockup was a straight wing design. It differed from the FJ-1 some.

Here you go:

(Image source: San Diego Air and Space Museum)

SaparotRob · Jan 30, 2022

Well, to be fair to the boys at Bell, they had to come up with a plane for an engine they couldn't see with a thrust they didn't know.

GrauGeist · Jan 30, 2022

SaparotRob said:
Well, to be fair to the boys at Bell, they had to come up with a plane for an engine they couldn't see with a thrust they didn't know.

Fully agree.

No aircraft manufacturer could have produced an effective fighter based on the info given them.

msxyz · Jan 30, 2022

Modern airliners owe a lot to those 35° swept wings; a very efficient shape for planes that don 't go faster than Mach 0.8-0.9

Some post war soviet designs were also heavily influenced by the ME262. In particular, Yakovlev put out a whole series of fighters/interceptor based on the general Me262 shape, the Yak 25/27/28 (although the soviet designers opted for a 45° swept wing for better transonic performance and stability). The French Vatour also is a descendant of this design.

windhund116 · Jan 30, 2022

GrauGeist said:
The He162 was faster @ 562mph.

The jets' top speeds are typically rated at 20,000 feet (all of the above are).

On the otherhand, the P-59A had a max. speed of 410mph at 30,000 feet, the P-59B was 413mph at the same altitude.

Wasn't the Me-163 Komet the fastest manned craft of WW2? Although I know it's a rocket.

SaparotRob · Jan 30, 2022

I think the Komet was the fastest, just not very good at bomber escort.

NTGray · Jan 30, 2022

GrauGeist said:
If the Shooting Star had engaged the Me262 during the war, it would have been the YP-80 or the P-80A, which were not close to the postwar P/F-80C in speed or performance.
The prototypes were able to just reach 502mph and the YP-80 (with standard combat outfitting) was able to attain a max. of 492mph versus the Me262's max. of 560mph.
The early P-80's time to 20,000 feet was 5.5 minutes, the Me262's time was 5.13 minutes.

Yeah, good point, which I knew but forgot. A list of performance specs applies to one model, generally the "standard" model, whichever one that was, but almost always a model that had been considerably improved from the -A model.

GrauGeist · Jan 30, 2022

NTGray said:
Yeah, good point, which I knew but forgot. A list of performance specs applies to one model, generally the "standard" model, whichever one that was, but almost always a model that had been considerably improved from the -A model.

The P/F-80C had a better engine and several system fixes that made a great performer and the T-33, which was spun off the P-80, was a great machine in it's own right, serving for decades after the F-80 was retired.
Boeing even has some in their inventory, serving as chase planes for their various project testing.
I read recently that Boeing was considering (or has) retiring them.

Not a bad run for a type with WWII heritage.

windhund116 said:
Wasn't the Me-163 Komet the fastest manned craft of WW2? Although I know it's a rocket.

Going by memory, the Me163 was limited to 550-560 mph due to potential structural failure if exceeded.

However, it's rate of climb was ridiculously fast and it has the notoriety of being the only rocket powered aircraft used in combat.

windhund116 · Jan 30, 2022

GrauGeist said:
Going by memory, the Me163 was limited to 550-560 mph due to potential structural failure if exceeded.

However, it's rate of climb was ridiculously fast and it has the notoriety of being the only rocket powered aircraft used in combat.

Thanks, for your reply!

I believe a test pilot set some sort of level flight record speed, which stood for several years. Even after the advent of more military jets. Wasn't it the only rocket plane ever to reach combat level status? I think that the X-1 and X-15 were not considered combat planes?

GrauGeist · Jan 30, 2022

Correct, the Me163 was the only rocket-powered fighter to see combat.

The Yokosuka MXY-7 was also a manned rocket-powered aircraft, but it was literally a flying bomb, so it's not in the same category. Plus it's max. level speed was just over 400mph, so the possibility of being intercepted by a F4U or P-47 existed (until the MXY-7 entered terminal dive).

msxyz · Jan 30, 2022

windhund116 said:
Wasn't the Me-163 Komet the fastest manned craft of WW2? Although I know it's a rocket.

With about 10 minutes of endurance, I don't know if it had enough fuel to reach its maximum speed under power in a horizontal flight. If I remember correctly, Heini Dittmar record breaking flights involved bringing the aircraft to altitude under tow.

GregP · Jan 31, 2022

When I visited the Stormbirds hangar in Everett, Washington, where they built Me 262 replicas, there was a letter from Messerschmitt issuing the Stormbirds consecutive werknumers, and along with that was the sentence that the new Me 262s, despite new engines, were limited, just like WWII Me 262s, to 540 mph maximum. If the pilot went beyond 540 mph, he was a test pilot and was on his own, as far as Messerschmitt was concerned.

I bet if you visited there, the letter would still be on the wall.

When I think of 1940s jets based on WWII designs, I think of some French things, too:

1) Sud-Ouest SO.6000:

2) Payen Katy:

3) Arsenal VG-90:

4) SNCAC NC.1071:

and quite a few others. Which is likely where the old, "if it is ugly, it is French" originated. These were all concept airplanes, not intended for production, but DID result in other jets being design and produced, many of which were classically beautiful. A Mirage F1 is French, but, to me at least, is very good-looking:

Mirage F1:

But, I suppose that is in the eyes of the beholder.

cherry blossom · Jan 31, 2022

The Mirage F1 above was the last successful design powered by an engine directly derived from a WW2 engine design, the BMW 018 (in the same way as the original axe from the Tower of London with three new handles and two new heads).

NTGray · Jan 31, 2022

GregP said:
Mirage F1:
View attachment 656323

But, I suppose that is in the eyes of the beholder.

The F-1 Mirage looks a lot like an A-5 Vigilante, but with curves:

msxyz · Jan 31, 2022

GregP said:
2) Payen Katy:
View attachment 656321

Wow, it seems as if somebody was a fan of Dr. Alexandr Lippish

As for the Mirage F1, I always though it was looking like an F-104 with conventional, arrow shaped wings.

SaparotRob · Jan 31, 2022

msxyz said:
Wow, it seems as if somebody was a fan of Dr. Alexandr Lippish

View attachment 656384

As for the Mirage F1, I always though it was looking like an F-104 with conventional, arrow shaped wings.

Or Jack Northrop.

windhund116 · Jan 31, 2022

The Douglas A-26/B-26 was in use in one form or another (with many owners) from WW2 through the 1960s

GrauGeist · Jan 31, 2022

Nicolas Payen was among the first to develop delta wings and tail-less aircraft along with Dunne and Lippisch.

ClayO · Jan 31, 2022

Lockheed Constellation: actually first flew in 1943, but achieved fame as a commercial airliner after the war.

GrauGeist · Jan 31, 2022

Up here in Northern California, a familiar fire-bomber was just retired after a long career: the P2V Neptune, which was a former USN ASW aircraft.
Designed to replace the Ventura, it first flew in May of 1945.

50s aircraft that originated during World War II

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