A-1 Skyraider vs A-26

tyrodtom said:

If the Migs had been flown by pilots of equal experience to that of the A1's, the encounter very likely would have turned out different.

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Agreed, but probably not a kill for the MiG. I suspect an experienced, wise MiG pilot would recognize a tarbaby when he saw one, and after a couple of unsuccessful passes, take his remaining fuel and ammo elsewhere in search of an easier target. A MiG17 is very much out of its element down in the weeds, and is a mighty thirsty beast to boot.
Cheers,
Wes

When I worked for Sikorsky, the US Army had been doing a lot of modeling for air combat involving helicopters. According to their simulations (of which quite a few of the Sikorsky engineers were suspicious), helicopters would regularly defeat jet fighters, as helicopters can maneuver in ways that fixed-wing aircraft cannot.

The real issue, of course, is that a highly loaded, swept-wing fighter jet cannot try to turn with a relatively lightly loaded, straight-wing propeller aircraft. Doing so is fighting to the prop plane's strength. A P-51 pilot wouldn't try that with a Zero, nor a Spitfire pilot against a CR.42, because that's fighting to the Axis' aircraft strength.

swampyankee said:

The real issue, of course, is that a highly loaded, swept-wing fighter jet cannot try to turn with a relatively lightly loaded, straight-wing propeller aircraft.

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The USN Skyraider/MiG kills, (at least the way they were teaching it in ACM training) were attributed to the A1's decelerate-accelerate capability against a jet that had let it's engine spool down, rather than any turning advantage it had.
Cheers,
Wes

XBe02Drvr said:

The USN Skyraider/MiG kills, (at least the way they were teaching it in ACM training) were attributed to the A1's decelerate-accelerate capability against a jet that had let it's engine spool down, rather than any turning advantage it had.
Cheers,
Wes

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A-1 Skyraider vs A-26

I've fought Mig-29s and flown their sim. I was surprised at the throttle response of it's engines, slow compared to the F100-100 (really slow compared to the -220). However, it would light the afterburner at 60k using hydromechanical engine control (wouldn't do that in a F100-100 (-220 no sweat). I've never turned with a Mig-21 / 23 but "may" have engaged them in training. The cockpit on the -29 had the -21 flap control panel, but didn't use all the buttons on it. Supposedly made the transition easier. That's how I would sell it if I were Mig...

It boils down to knowing your strengths / weaknesses, as well as his. You recognize mistakes and have an opportunity to take advantage of them. The next iteration of this will be a guy in an EMG-312 Tucano or AT-6 will spank someone making rookie mistakes...

Cheers,
Biff

fubar57 said:

A-1 Skyraider vs A-26

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I'm familiar with that event, but again, the way they were teaching it in ACM training is that the MiG who tried to bust the Lufberry let his speed decay in order to get enough tracking time to take a shot. This gave the next A1 in the circle (who saw it coming) the opportunity to goose his throttle, pull an extra G or two, and get off a well aimed deflection shot as the MiG tried to cut into the circle.
As mentioned upthread, that is the varsity move of an experienced pilot, not something a low time, third world oxcart driver who's been trained in tail chase gunnery could pull off. Accurate gunnery in a high G turn is one of those esoteric skills that only comes with experience. And without its acceleration capability, that Skyraider could never have got into position for the shot, a fact that undoubtedly took the MiG driver by surprise.
Cheers,
Wes