A-36 Apache vs SB2C helldiver

SaparotRob said:

He any good?

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Marginal.

SaparotRob said:

Getting my coat.

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Don't forget your umbrella, I bet it'll be pissing down in a moment.

drgondog said:

Dave - despite researching more than 10,000 NAA, AAC/AAF docs I have never been able to find one NAA or AAF Management reference to Apache - only NAA Marketing - and various propaganda illustrations (author unknown) in 1941 referencing Apache.

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According to this July 1942 telegram from Kindelberger to the AAF PR office, NAA preferred that all P-51 variants be referred to as 'Mustangs'.

drgondog said:

Dave - despite researching more than 10,000 NAA, AAC/AAF docs I have never been able to find one NAA or AAF Management reference to Apache - only NAA Marketing - and various propaganda illustrations (author unknown) in 1941 referencing Apache.

The few marketing drawings showed six gun wing battery so I I drew conclusions that the origination of the brand was during mid-late 1941 when Kindelberger actually was optimistic that NAA would get an order for P-51s with Materiel Cmd.

Note that A-36 was on the boards in fall 1941 as NAA got wind of the Attack Pursuit funding and knew that Combat command was not excited by A-24, 25, 31 and prototype XA-32.

IIRC the formal 'memo' issued by Materiel Command in 1944 cleared up the various name confusion by declaring that all NAA Variants be named Mustang.

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Bill, it was my understanding that the NA-91 was briefly referred to as the "Apache" due to the Lend-Lease requiring equipment that was to be "lent" to an ally had to be in use by U.S. armed forces?

At the time, the Army only had the NA-73 evaluation birds and the commandeered NA-91s with no official name, since it was the British which named it and NAA simply referred to it by their company alpha-numeric designator.

GrauGeist said:

Bill, it was my understanding that the NA-91 was briefly referred to as the "Apache" due to the Lend-Lease requiring equipment that was to be "lent" to an ally had to be in use by U.S. armed forces?

At the time, the Army only had the NA-73 evaluation birds and the commandeered NA-91s with no official name, since it was the British which named it and NAA simply referred to it by their company alpha-numeric designator.

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Dave - this is where the source and promotion of aircraft names begs the question, "Who". Nobody in leadership role at NAA ever referred to any of the early models including A-36 as anything but the 'Mustang'. The Army never named the XP-51 when it received.

The NA-91 was issued under Defense aid for Britain - and was already named Mustang by NAA per BAM directive, December 1940, that all NA-73 and subs be named Mustang. That said various Army sources pled for Invader for A-36 in 1943 and multiple sources point to the A-36 as 'Apache' including Signal Corps products.

Note that NA-91 contract, DA-140, was let when the NA-73 deliveries were beginning for XP-51 and early AG series. It was most definitely Mustang IA for both NAA and RAF. If it briefly picked up 'Apache' out of either NAA Marketing or US Army, it was when the Army grabbed 57 in April 1942 timeframe - to provide flight test and maintenance experience/training for the A-36 contract just let. The intent was to direct them to fast armed reconnaissance like RAF Army Co-Operation Command.

As near as I can pinpoint marketing art and mention of Apache to a period - it would be in spring 1942 - and probably the reason for the Kindelberger TWX to Army to name all derivatives Mustang.