About the 3cm Mk108‘s shells........

[Hr9013]

Hello everyone. I got a relatively complete description of the Mk108 cannon used by Luftwaffe from a friend's personal website, but the original text is German, and many words are not translated smoothly, I would like to ask for help, and I will publish the finished product with the original website.

I would like to ask what does the following phrase mean?
"Minengeschoss Übung ohne Zerleger"

 

[Snautzer01]

Pratice shot without igniter.

 

[Wurger]

The phrase "Minengeschoss Übung ohne Zerlege" is a noun.

Minengeschoss (Minengeschoß) - fragmentation/explosive cartrige/bullet/shell/ammunition
Übung - training/ practice
ohne - without
Zerleger - self-destructor/ self-destruction unit/ self-destroying fuze

So the translation should be - a practice explosive shell without the self-destruct fuze.

 

[tomo pauk]

I would like to ask what does the following phrase mean?
"Minengeschoss Übung ohne Zerleger"

My take:
Mine shell, practice, without self-destruct mechanism

 

[Wurger]

And here ... Komet weapons: MK 108 ammunition - line drawings and photos

 

[ThomasP]

I do not know if this helps, but

When I type "30-mm-gesschuB mit Zerleger" into Google Tranlate, I end up with "30mm shot with burster"

When I type in "30-mm-gesschuB ohne Zerleger" I end up with "30mm projectile without a fragmenter"

(Note the double "s" in "gesschuB" in the above examples)

When I type in "30-mm-geschuB mit Zerleger" (Note the single "s" in "GeschuB") I end up with "30mm round with burster"

When I type in "30-mm-geschuB ohne Zerleger" (Note the single "s" in "GeschuB") I end up with "30mm round without a fragmenter"

For "30-mm-minengeschuB mit Zerleger" (Note the single "s" in "GeschuB") I end up with "30mm mine shot with burster"

For "30-mm-minengesschuB ohne Zerleger" (Note the double "s" in "gesschuB") I end up with "30 mm mine shot without a burst"

However, when I type in "30-mm-minengesschuB ohner zerleger" (Note the double "s" in "gesschuB", the "r" at the end of "ohner", and the small "z" in "zerleger") I end up with "30mm mine shell without splitter"

But for some reason when I type in "30-mm minengeschoss mit Zerleger" (Note the single "s" in "minengeschoss") I end up with "30mm mine shell with splitter" and "30-mm minengeschoss ohne Zerleger" yields "30-mm mine shell without a fragmenter"

Then when I type in "30-mm minengesschoss mit Zerleger" (Note the double "s" in "minengeschoss") I end up with "30mm mine projectile with splitter"

However, when I type in "30-mm minengesschoss ohne Zerleger" (Note the double "s" in "minengeschoss") I end up with "30 mm mine projectile without fragmentation"



Is there some magic formula for the German language?

 

[Hr9013]

The phrase "Minengeschoss Übung ohne Zerlege" is a noun.

Minengeschoss (Minengeschoß) - fragmentation/explosive cartrige/bullet/shell/ammunition
Übung - training/ practice
ohne - without
Zerleger - self-destructor/ self-destruction unit/ self-destroying fuze

So the translation should be - a practice explosive shell without the self-destruct fuze.

WOW，I think your translation is probably correct. This is the researcher's description of the original text: Tar filled practice mine shell, made of a pressed and rolled steel body with a zinc nose piece to replace the fuse The driving band is made of red copper and on the inside of the body is an aluminium support ring at the same height as the driving band. Note typical Mineshell round bottom that ensures an maximum explosive charge if used in HE role.

 

[Hr9013]

And here ... Komet weapons: MK 108 ammunition - line drawings and photos

JA！Thank you for providing the original link of this researcher！

 

[GrauGeist]

Is there some magic formula for the German language?

Yes, when speaking it (or sounding it out when typing), be sure that you sound angry...

 

[SaparotRob]

In high school, my first class was accelerated German. Screaming "good morning" to the teacher really woke me up.

 

[GrauGeist]

German is certainly not one of the "Romance" languages.

 

[Hr9013]

German is certainly not one of the "Romance" languages.

ja.German gives people an aggressive impression(

 

[Snautzer01]

German is certainly not one of the "Romance" languages.

Wait untill a german girl whispers .. ich liebe dich very softly in to your ear.

 

[GrauGeist]

Wait untill a german girl whispers .. ich liebe dich very softly in to your ear.

 

[Wurger]

Wait untill a german girl whispers .. ich liebe dich very softly in to your ear.

My daughter says that even the Christmas wishes in the German sound like the command to shoot.

 

[Jimbob]

A few Mk 108 rounds and link.

 

[machine shop tom]

Wait untill a german girl whispers .. ich liebe dich very softly in to your ear.

I once dated a Polish/Norwegian girl who whispered that in my ear. It was.......................weird.

 

[machine shop tom]

A few Mk 108 rounds and link.

Interesting that they use a rebated rim, ala the .284 Winchester and the .458 SOCOM.

 

[A.G. Williams]

Interesting that they use a rebated rim, ala the .284 Winchester and the .458 SOCOM.

It is an essential requirement of Advance Primer Ignition guns, because of the way they work. From my book Autocannon:

"A few cases have seen service with rebated rims, i.e. with a rim of smaller diameter than the case. This is essential in API blowback cannon that fire while the cartridge is still moving, because it allows the bolt and its extractor claw to follow the case into an extended or hooded chamber. This ensures that the cartridge is fully supported at the instant of firing."

The API blowback was invented in Germany just before WW1. The first production cannon using this system was the 20mm Becker. After WW1 the design was developed further, ultimately by Oerlikon of Switzerland, who made three different versions of 20mm cannon, varying in cartridge power. The German 20mm MG-FF was developed from these. Rheinmetall Borsig designed and made the 30 mm MK 108, and was testing a 55 mm version at the end of WW2. Japan also experimentally made a 30mm Oerlikon type.

The API blowback is very simple in design, and very rugged in use. Vast numbers of 20mm Oerlikons were made in WW2, mostly in naval mountings for the USN and RN.

 

[machine shop tom]

It is an essential requirement of Advance Primer Ignition guns, because of the way they work. From my book Autocannon:

"A few cases have seen service with rebated rims, i.e. with a rim of smaller diameter than the case. This is essential in API blowback cannon that fire while the cartridge is still moving, because it allows the bolt and its extractor claw to follow the case into an extended or hooded chamber. This ensures that the cartridge is fully supported at the instant of firing."

The API blowback was invented in Germany just before WW1. The first production cannon using this system was the 20mm Becker. After WW1 the design was developed further, ultimately by Oerlikon of Switzerland, who made three different versions of 20mm cannon, varying in cartridge power. The German 20mm MG-FF was developed from these. Rheinmetall Borsig designed and made the 30 mm MK 108, and was testing a 55 mm version at the end of WW2. Japan also experimentally made a 30mm Oerlikon type.

The API blowback is very simple in design, and very rugged in use. Vast numbers of 20mm Oerlikons were made in WW2, mostly in naval mountings for the USN and RN.

Thank for that information. As a shooter and handloader, rebated-rimmed cartridges not uncommon in my experience. They are generally used to mate a common bolt head size to a cartridge with a larger base to gain powder capacity.