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It was production engine.Also, as far as I know the R-2600 with 1800-1900 BHP for TO was not a production engine?
All the time RR was playing politics and some in the Air Ministry were dancing to their tune, which resulted in unfair decisions against Napier and Bristol.
The RR Eagle development was aided greatly after the Air Ministry removed an engine and all documentation from Napiers and sent it to RR.
The Centaurus was also held back by the AM, and also part of the reason for the Centaurus numbers being so low during the war was they were built in an underground factory, which took time to make and staff. The staff were not exactly excited about working underground.
In late 1942 the Air Ministry forced Bristol to provide Napier the manufacturing technology to make sleeves with the appropriate tolerances.
RR drew up an H-24 using four Merlin cylinder blocks but it didn't go any further (?).
Bristol: "Fedden" Bill Gunston, It is worth reading the whole book to get the big picture. Two examples of many on p192 and p230.Unfair decisions against Napier and Bristol? What were they?
Really?
The practical advantage of the sleeve valve vs poppet valve might be demonstrated by the relative BHP vs displacement. The list below shows the ratings at the end of the war (or just post-war) for the major Allied larger engines.
_____________________________________super___________valve______BHP
_______________in3______Type________ charger__________type_______dry
Merlin_________1650_____V12_____2-stage/2-speed_____poppet_____2030
V-1710________1710_____V12_____2-stage/2-speed_____poppet_____1800
Griffon________ 2240_____V12_____2-stage/2-speed_____poppet_____2200
Griffon________ 2240_____V12_____2-stage/3-speed_____poppet_____2400
Sabre_________2240_____H24_____1-stage/2-speed_____sleeve_____ 2600
Hercules______ 2360_____R14_____1-stage/2-speed_____sleeve_____ 1800
R-2600_______ 2600_____R14_____1-stage/2-speed_____poppet_____1750
R-2800_______ 2800_____R18_____2-stage/2-speed_____poppet_____2300
Eagle 22______ 2817_____H24_____2-stage/2-speed_____sleeve_____ 3200
Centaurus_____3272_____R18_____1-stage/2-speed_____sleeve______2500
R-3350_______ 3350_____R18_____ turbo-supercharged_ poppet_____2200 (2500 for A-bomb missions?)
R-4360_______ 4360_____R28_____ turbo-supercharged_ poppet_____3250
Take note of the BHP per displacement of the H24 engines (in particular) vs the equivalent size poppet valve engines. While this list does not give anywhere near all the various pluses and minuses, I think it indicates a very good reason why Napier and Rolls Royce pursued the sleeve valve in their liquid-cooled engines.
If we are being generous, there was one set of problems getting prototypes to work, and another set of problems getting them into mass production? So plausibly the claims you quote only apply to the first?Something smells in sleeve valve land with the all the problems had been solve in 1938 or before.
Which may still be optimistic, or perhaps there were other problems with the production engines?These smooth-running engines were largely hand-built, which was incompatible with the needs of wartime production. At that time, the tolerances were simply not sufficiently accurate to ensure the mass production of reliable engines. Fedden drove his teams mercilessly, at both Bristol and its suppliers, and thousands of combinations of alloys and methods were tried before a process was discovered which used centrifugal casting to make the sleeves perfectly round. This final success arrived just before the start of the Second World War.[3]
If we are comparing like with like the Hercules and Centaurus stack up OK against the R-2600 and R-3350? I guess because the air cooled engines are already constrained in bhp/litre by heat limits so the boost limit doesn't matter as much (unless you are racing at Reno)?There is no example of a sleeve valve ever surpassing a poppet valve of the same era in bhp/litre.
The Hercules XI had more power and less fuel consumption than the Wright R-2600-A5B, at maximum continuous weak power settings at all altitudes.There is no example of a sleeve valve ever surpassing a poppet valve of the same era in bhp/litre.
There were plenty of issues of both categories. There were also difficulties once in service, eg the RN had missed a step in the procedure (opening an oil drain), which resulted in quite a few failures.If we are being generous, there was one set of problems getting prototypes to work, and another set of problems getting them into mass production? So plausibly the claims you quote only apply to the first?
An awful lot depends on when. The R-2600 is a bit of puzzle in itself. There are three totally different engines that share the same bore and stroke. The 3rd engine (the BB) started production in the middle of 1943 and is the 1900hp for take-off version but that doesn't line up with the Military power even at low level. This engine was only used by the Navy with few, if any, commercial sales after the war. Wright may (guessing) have seen the hand writing on the wall and concentrated on the R-3350 and the R-1820 and not tried to split their effort 3 ways. They had enough problems with R-3350 in 1944/45 anyway.If we are comparing like with like the Hercules and Centaurus stack up OK against the R-2600 and R-3350? I guess because the air cooled engines are already constrained in bhp/litre by heat limits so the boost limit doesn't matter as much (unless you are racing at Reno)?
Bristol: "Fedden" Bill Gunston, It is worth reading the whole book to get the big picture. Two examples of many on p192 and p230.
Napier: I will go with my engine theft example.
As I have already stated, refer "By Precision into Power", Vessey, p143. First paragraph, second line.
I may come across as a bit of a sleeve valve junkie, but that isn't really the case. I am impressed by their very clever engineering. I just (foolishly) want them to get a fair trial.
The Hercules XI had more power and less fuel consumption than the Wright R-2600-A5B, at maximum continuous weak power settings at all altitudes.
When tested in the Stirling, "three aircraft - N3657, N3711, and R9188 - were fitted with Wright Cyclone engines at Swindon, performance and fuel consumption trials to assess performance and fuel consumption produced disappointing results."
So in the real world, the sleeve outperformed the poppet. You will know that the Hercules capacity was 2300 in³, rather smaller than the R-2600.
Comparing numbers in tables doesn't always show the situation. TO/combat/WEP power is a transient, and is only a small part of the entire performance envelope.
Comparing a 1941 sleeve valve to a 1940 poppet engine or a 1946-47 sleeve valve to a 1943 Poppet?You don't think sleeve valve engines had a fair trial in WW2?
What would have been a fair trial?
More development of the Fairey P24 Monarch, going from 2 valve per to 4?I wouldn't expect so as it's really two flat 12 cylinder arrangements and flat (horizontally opposed) designs
ran valves.