airman killed in pistol mishap at F.E. Warren AFB

[SaparotRob]

I know that the 1911 had its issues through the years. I wouldn't want the original edition. I've glanced at articles on the 1911 on and off. Mostly off. There were reasons for why there are so many letters and numbers after 1911.
I'm not looking for a competition model or a cheap knockoff. I'd just like to have a government model M1911.

 

[Ivan1GFP]

I know that the 1911 had its issues through the years. I wouldn't want the original edition. I've glanced at articles on the 1911 on and off. Mostly off. There were reasons for why there are so many letters and numbers after 1911.
I'm not looking for a competition model or a cheap knockoff. I'd just like to have a government model M1911.

There is the M1911 and M1911A1.
The changes to get from the original to the A1 were actually fairly simple.
The frame had some scallop cuts added behind the trigger to round off the frame a bit,
The Trigger was changed to a shorter version.
The Flat Mainspring Housing was changed to an Arched one to help the gun point more naturally.
That was it.

As for a recommendation, I can't really give one. The US Army M1911A1 had VERY VERY strict specification as to dimensions so that all parts from any manufacturer would interchange. Modern manufacturers don't really follow that and are not spending your tax dollars for manufacturing with parts rejected even if slightly out of tolerance. The M1911 types are very complicated pistols that need an awful lot of hand fitting most of the time in order to run well. Kimber seems to do their own thing but their quality is a bit inconsistent though they are generally pretty good pistols. I have not examined their series II with the firing pin safety activated by the grip safety, but a lot of people seem to have problems with it. The most common problem is that the grip safety frees the trigger before unblocking the firing pin. Pulling the triger then drops the hammer on a blocked firing pin and pistol does not shoot. The Colts from the Series 80 onwards come with a trigger activated firing pin block. People have commented that it ruins the feel of the trigger but I have not found this to be true. I also don't have 1911 triggers below 4.5 pounds or much above 4.75 pounds. (Yes, I have an electronic trigger scale to use when tuning the triggers.) How clean the trigger breaks is much more important than a couple ounces of weight.
The Colt firing pin safeties are just a B*TCH to get back together if you have taken all the pieces out.

- Ivan.

 

[Frog]

There is the M1911 and M1911A1.
The changes to get from the original to the A1 were actually fairly simple.
The frame had some scallop cuts added behind the trigger to round off the frame a bit,
The Trigger was changed to a shorter version.
The Flat Mainspring Housing was changed to an Arched one to help the gun point more naturally.
That was it.

As for a recommendation, I can't really give one. The US Army M1911A1 had VERY VERY strict specification as to dimensions so that all parts from any manufacturer would interchange. Modern manufacturers don't really follow that and are not spending your tax dollars for manufacturing with parts rejected even if slightly out of tolerance. The M1911 types are very complicated pistols that need an awful lot of hand fitting most of the time in order to run well. Kimber seems to do their own thing but their quality is a bit inconsistent though they are generally pretty good pistols. I have not examined their series II with the firing pin safety activated by the grip safety, but a lot of people seem to have problems with it. The most common problem is that the grip safety frees the trigger before unblocking the firing pin. Pulling the triger then drops the hammer on a blocked firing pin and pistol does not shoot. The Colts from the Series 80 onwards come with a trigger activated firing pin block. People have commented that it ruins the feel of the trigger but I have not found this to be true. I also don't have 1911 triggers below 4.5 pounds or much above 4.75 pounds. (Yes, I have an electronic trigger scale to use when tuning the triggers.) How clean the trigger breaks is much more important than a couple ounces of weight.
The Colt firing pin safeties are just a B*TCH to get back together if you have taken all the pieces out.

- Ivan.

+ :
- longer grip safety spur ;
- hammer spur shorter ;
- wider front sight ;
- larger rear sight cut.

 

[SaparotRob]

There is the M1911 and M1911A1.
The changes to get from the original to the A1 were actually fairly simple.
The frame had some scallop cuts added behind the trigger to round off the frame a bit,
The Trigger was changed to a shorter version.
The Flat Mainspring Housing was changed to an Arched one to help the gun point more naturally.
That was it.

As for a recommendation, I can't really give one. The US Army M1911A1 had VERY VERY strict specification as to dimensions so that all parts from any manufacturer would interchange. Modern manufacturers don't really follow that and are not spending your tax dollars for manufacturing with parts rejected even if slightly out of tolerance. The M1911 types are very complicated pistols that need an awful lot of hand fitting most of the time in order to run well. Kimber seems to do their own thing but their quality is a bit inconsistent though they are generally pretty good pistols. I have not examined their series II with the firing pin safety activated by the grip safety, but a lot of people seem to have problems with it. The most common problem is that the grip safety frees the trigger before unblocking the firing pin. Pulling the triger then drops the hammer on a blocked firing pin and pistol does not shoot. The Colts from the Series 80 onwards come with a trigger activated firing pin block. People have commented that it ruins the feel of the trigger but I have not found this to be true. I also don't have 1911 triggers below 4.5 pounds or much above 4.75 pounds. (Yes, I have an electronic trigger scale to use when tuning the triggers.) How clean the trigger breaks is much more important than a couple ounces of weight.
The Colt firing pin safeties are just a B*TCH to get back together if you have taken all the pieces out.

- Ivan.

I think I'll stick with the M-1 and the M-1 then.

 

[Ivan1GFP]

I think I'll stick with the M-1 and the M-1 then.

The M1911 types are great guns but if you get one, be prepared to have to learn a few things about the gun and how to do some common tune ups. None of the commercial guns are as dimensionally consistent as the military guns, but if you shoot it A LOT, it will certainly outlast the military guns.

 

[elbmc1969]

If you have just unclipped a holster from your belt, it does not seem like a natural movement to hold it in a way that you put it down with the muzzle facing toward yourself.

- Ivan.

I assumed that he took off his belt, with handcuffs, taser/mace/pepper spray, radio, spare magazines, etc., etc., and threw it on the table. However, I haven't seen a detailed account one way or another.

 

[muskeg13]

I had wanted to acquire a 1911 but which? What manufacturer produces a new, bog stock, government issue, U.S. Army approved, no foolin', the real deal, original type, unfiddled with, unmessed with, uncorrected, unperfected, "that is my father's M1911", M1911?

The US Gov't supported Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) sells original US issue M1911s, but in my opinion, they are a bit overpriced. However, they are the real deal. Surplus U.S. Army 1911 Information - Civilian Marksmanship Program

Springfield Armory, a very reputable private company, make several versions of the M1911, including a Mil-Spec version. I have a military version .45 ACP made by them over 20 years ago and a new manufactured "Ronin" in 10mm. Both are utterly reliable and required no after market accessories or gunsmith fiddling to get them to "run" flawlessly, and both are extremely well made and accurate. 1911 Mil-Spec Handguns - Springfield Armory

Colt, the original manufacturer of the M1911, still makes a classic M1911. I have a Series 70 purchased in 1981 whose parts absolutely interchange with WW2 surplus parts without any fuss. 1911 Classic - Colt's Manufacturing LLC

There are others of both genuine US and foreign manufacture that have very good reputations and parts interchangeability with almost all other M1911s made anywhere. The M1911 was a relatively uncomplicated design that unquestionably exceeded its design standards and has stood the test of time for 114 years. Buy a full-sized M1911, in any version you like, made in the USA from any manufacturer, and you won't go wrong. I personally recommend Springfield Armory for their quality, reliability, accuracy and price.

 

[Ivan1GFP]

I assumed that he took off his belt, with handcuffs, taser/mace/pepper spray, radio, spare magazines, etc., etc., and threw it on the table. However, I haven't seen a detailed account one way or another.

On the nylon holster that was last used for the M1911 and M9, there were clips that made up the belt loop and could be squeezed together to open the belt loop and remove it from the belt. It wasn't necessary to remove the entire equipment belt. The magazine pouch was done the same way. They came in black and green and perhaps other colours. I only have a green set.

- Ivan.

 

[Ivan1GFP]

The US Gov't supported Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) sells original US issue M1911s, but in my opinion, they are a bit overpriced. However, they are the real deal. Surplus U.S. Army 1911 Information - Civilian Marksmanship Program

As I understand it there has not been any new USGI M1911s produced since the end of WW2. Many have been rebuilt with parts replaced as needed, but the heat treating of the time was much inferior to what it is today. As such, the typical lifespan of a USGI M1911 is only about 20,000 rounds before major parts failure. The most common failure is a crack in the slide. 20,000 rounds sounds like a lot but it really isn't if you tend to shoot a lot.Springfield Armory, a very reputable private company, make several versions of the M1911, including a Mil-Spec version. I have a military version .45 ACP made by them over 20 years ago and a new manufactured "Ronin" in 10mm. Both are utterly reliable and required no after market accessories or gunsmith fiddling to get them to "run" flawlessly, and both are extremely well made and accurate. 1911 Mil-Spec Handguns - Springfield Armory

Colt, the original manufacturer of the M1911, still makes a classic M1911. I have a Series 70 purchased in 1981 whose parts absolutely interchange with WW2 surplus parts without any fuss. 1911 Classic - Colt's Manufacturing LLC

There are others of both genuine US and foreign manufacture that have very good reputations and parts interchangeability with almost all other M1911s made anywhere. The M1911 was a relatively uncomplicated design that unquestionably exceeded its design standards and has stood the test of time for 114 years. Buy a full-sized M1911, in any version you like, made in the USA from any manufacturer, and you won't go wrong. I personally recommend Springfield Armory

Between Springfield Inc. and Colt, I would probably choose Colt instead of Springfield. From the forums, Springfield seems to have really well meaning customer service but there have been way too many cases of the same pistol going back multiple times for the same problem.
The extractor seems to be a recurring theme in the forums.
As for Colt, They seem to be a known quantity though they are (in my opinion) a bit overpriced for what you actually get.

I disagree with you that the M1911 is a relatively uncomplicated design. It is uncomplicated in theory of operation, but the fitting and interaction of parts needed for smooth running are actually quite complicated. For good accuracy, there needs to be fairly tight lockup between barrel and slide lugs. The barrel hood needs to fit with minimal clearance side to side in the slide and NO clearance against the breech face. When unlocking, the barrel and slide need to clear (sounds obvious but some guns do not) before the barrel bottom lug bits the frame and stops. The contact must be on the heavy part of the bottom lug and not on the "feet" or you may find that they break off at some point. The two piece feed ramp needs a very well defined relation ship and it leaves very little room for adjustment which becomes even less if your pistol has much above minimum headspace.
Something so simple as a replacement Mainspring housing may significantly affect your trigger pull and grip safety. Then again, it may not.
I have had two that did and one that did not. These were all replacing a stock plastic part with a steel part.
The tuning of the extractor and ejector is another potential fun event if you don't like spent cases coming back and hitting you in the face.

- Ivan.

 

[muskeg13]

As I understand it there has not been any new USGI M1911s produced since the end of WW2. Many have been rebuilt with parts replaced as needed, but the heat treating of the time was much inferior to what it is today. As such, the typical lifespan of a USGI M1911 is only about 20,000 rounds before major parts failure. The most common failure is a crack in the slide. 20,000 rounds sounds like a lot but it really isn't if you tend to shoot a lot.Springfield Armory, a very reputable private company, make several versions of the M1911, including a Mil-Spec version. I have a military version .45 ACP made by them over 20 years ago and a new manufactured "Ronin" in 10mm. Both are utterly reliable and required no after market accessories or gunsmith fiddling to get them to "run" flawlessly, and both are extremely well made and accurate. 1911 Mil-Spec Handguns - Springfield Armory


Between Springfield Inc. and Colt, I would probably choose Colt instead of Springfield. From the forums, Springfield seems to have really well meaning customer service but there have been way too many cases of the same pistol going back multiple times for the same problem.
The extractor seems to be a recurring theme in the forums.
As for Colt, They seem to be a known quantity though they are (in my opinion) a bit overpriced for what you actually get.

I disagree with you that the M1911 is a relatively uncomplicated design. It is uncomplicated in theory of operation, but the fitting and interaction of parts needed for smooth running are actually quite complicated. For good accuracy, there needs to be fairly tight lockup between barrel and slide lugs. The barrel hood needs to fit with minimal clearance side to side in the slide and NO clearance against the breech face. When unlocking, the barrel and slide need to clear (sounds obvious but some guns do not) before the barrel bottom lug bits the frame and stops. The contact must be on the heavy part of the bottom lug and not on the "feet" or you may find that they break off at some point. The two piece feed ramp needs a very well defined relation ship and it leaves very little room for adjustment which becomes even less if your pistol has much above minimum headspace.
Something so simple as a replacement Mainspring housing may significantly affect your trigger pull and grip safety. Then again, it may not.
I have had two that did and one that did not. These were all replacing a stock plastic part with a steel part.
The tuning of the extractor and ejector is another potential fun event if you don't like spent cases coming back and hitting you in the face.

- Ivan.

You say a lot of things with nothing to back it up. Where are your inferior heat treating stats? So, you seem to take a lot of stock in what the internet forums say (I guess this one should be included too?). Unless Springfield Armory is lying, their forged steel slides and frames are amongst the strongest ever produced and are available today. If there is an extractor problem, replace it, even with an original US WW2 extractor, and if the operator doesn't know how to do this, they shouldn't have a M1911. It's a very simple operator level task.

"It is uncomplicated in theory of operation, but the fitting and interaction of parts needed for smooth running are actually quite complicated. For good accuracy, there needs to be fairly tight lockup between barrel and slide lugs. The barrel hood needs to fit with minimal clearance side to side in the slide and NO clearance against the breech face. When unlocking, the barrel and slide need to clear (sounds obvious but some guns do not) before the barrel bottom lug bits the frame and stops. The contact must be on the heavy part of the bottom lug and not on the "feet" or you may find that they break off at some point. The two piece feed ramp needs a very well defined relation ship and it leaves very little room for adjustment which becomes even less if your pistol has much above minimum headspace."

Uh Huh, and so what? More distracting "white noise" as the M1911 was designed to accommodate universal interchangeability and utter reliability under the most challenging combat conditions, so the interaction of parts was such that close enough was good enough in an era where "Good enough for government work" was actually a very high standard. The millions of military M1911s that have been in hard service from it's adoption until...don't be shocked, today, do not have the reputation for the any of the problems you insinuate are prevalent. The John Moses Browning basic design is THE model of reliability.

"Something so simple as a replacement Mainspring housing may significantly affect your trigger pull and grip safety. Then again, it may not."
So what? What does this have to do with someone asking a recommendation for a stock M1911?

"These were all replacing a stock plastic part with a steel part."
What the heck are you talking about? Plastic? The only plastic on a real M1911 might be the left and right grip panels, and they have nothing to do with function. #43 in the diagram. Tell us what plastic parts you had to replace.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Reminder to all on forum etiquette. When in disagreement attack the post, not the poster.

 

[GrauGeist]

I know that the 1911 had its issues through the years. I wouldn't want the original edition. I've glanced at articles on the 1911 on and off. Mostly off. There were reasons for why there are so many letters and numbers after 1911.
I'm not looking for a competition model or a cheap knockoff. I'd just like to have a government model M1911.

Rob, I had an actual military issue Colt 1911 ages ago and loved it. Due to it's age and service life, it had to be retired, though.
So I set out to find another and eventually found a suitable replacement with the Rock Island 1911A1 Tactical model.

You can read about it here:
The Guns We Own

Go check one out and see what you think.

 

[Ivan1GFP]

You say a lot of things with nothing to back it up. Where are your inferior heat treating stats? So, you seem to take a lot of stock in what the internet forums say (I guess this one should be included too?). Unless Springfield Armory is lying, their forged steel slides and frames are amongst the strongest ever produced and are available today. If there is an extractor problem, replace it, even with an original US WW2 extractor, and if the operator doesn't know how to do this, they shouldn't have a M1911. It's a very simple operator level task.

I had thought about getting a USGI M1911 from the CMP, but decided it wasn't worth it. I expect a certain level of performance and wasn't likely to get it with a rack grade gun. Forged does not necessarily mean strong. I know that back in the mid 1980s Colt made a few slides that were obviously forged but were extremely soft. I owned one. I swapped it out for a Gold Cup slide. It sat in my parts box for many years until a veteran friend of mine told me about his target M1911 that he could not shoot any more because it had a cracked slide. I warned him that the spare slide I had was a take-off part and not one I would use, but he was OK with that and I just gave it to him and now he has a working pistol again. Of course, it probably looks a bit weird with a bottom half blued and a top half in stainless.

Yes, a faulty extractor is a user replaceable part. The problem is that checking for proper fit, tension and bevels is not so obvious. It isn't complicated, but the extractor may not necessarily be a drop in part.

"It is uncomplicated in theory of operation, but the fitting and interaction of parts needed for smooth running are actually quite complicated. For good accuracy, there needs to be fairly tight lockup between barrel and slide lugs. The barrel hood needs to fit with minimal clearance side to side in the slide and NO clearance against the breech face. When unlocking, the barrel and slide need to clear (sounds obvious but some guns do not) before the barrel bottom lug bits the frame and stops. The contact must be on the heavy part of the bottom lug and not on the "feet" or you may find that they break off at some point. The two piece feed ramp needs a very well defined relation ship and it leaves very little room for adjustment which becomes even less if your pistol has much above minimum headspace."

Uh Huh, and so what? More distracting "white noise" as the M1911 was designed to accommodate universal interchangeability and utter reliability under the most challenging combat conditions, so the interaction of parts was such that close enough was good enough in an era where "Good enough for government work" was actually a very high standard. The millions of military M1911s that have been in hard service from it's adoption until...don't be shocked, today, do not have the reputation for the any of the problems you insinuate are prevalent. The John Moses Browning basic design is THE model of reliability.

There are quite a few critical dimensions with fairly small tolerances between the bottom of the barrel, frame ramp and chamber. The feed angle is very steep and you really can't improve it to any significant degree without installing a ramped barrel. I have seen a couple Philippine made 1911s in which this area was machined wrong. There wasn't the small step between the frame and barrel feed ramps that is needed for reliable functioning. I have also seen a factory barrel on a Norinco gun that was way over throated to the point where the case support at the rear was getting questionable. I know the previous owner didn't do it unless he re-chromed the barrel afterward.
As for USGI M1911s, there is a HUGE difference between manufacturing for the government and commercial manufacturing. The government doesn't care if the manufacturer has a high parts reject rate because the manufacturer eats the cost.
A perfect example of this is when I replaced a plastic mainspring housing with a steel one on a Colt Government Model. It was a near perfect fit. I figured I would just order another one from the same folks for a second Colt gun. What could go wrong? The second one was way off in dimensions and would not fit either gun. This was not a small time manufacturer either. If this were a government contract, the second part would have been a reject regardless of the cost to make.

"Something so simple as a replacement Mainspring housing may significantly affect your trigger pull and grip safety. Then again, it may not."
So what? What does this have to do with someone asking a recommendation for a stock M1911?

"These were all replacing a stock plastic part with a steel part."
What the heck are you talking about? Plastic? The only plastic on a real M1911 might be the left and right grip panels, and they have nothing to do with function. #43 in the diagram. Tell us what plastic parts you had to replace.View attachment 842600

The Mainspring Housing is part 25 in the diagram above. Colt switched to plastic sometime around 1986-1987. Kimber used plastic of a rather translucent type in the late 1990s and I believe they still use plastic though it is less obvious.
Both of the parts in the photograph are plastic.
The mainspring housing on the left came from a Colt Government Model circa 1987 I believe. The right one came from a Gold Cup out of the Colt Custom Shop in the early 2000s. The two parts are dimensionally close, but exchanging one for the other will noticeably change the weight of your trigger pull because they load the Sear Spring (Part 39) differently. The replacement steel parts were an even tighter fit and changed the spring tension even more.

- Ivan.

 

[Frog]

You say a lot of things with nothing to back it up. Where are your inferior heat treating stats? So, you seem to take a lot of stock in what the internet forums say (I guess this one should be included too?). Unless Springfield Armory is lying, their forged steel slides and frames are amongst the strongest ever produced and are available today. If there is an extractor problem, replace it, even with an original US WW2 extractor, and if the operator doesn't know how to do this, they shouldn't have a M1911. It's a very simple operator level task.

"It is uncomplicated in theory of operation, but the fitting and interaction of parts needed for smooth running are actually quite complicated. For good accuracy, there needs to be fairly tight lockup between barrel and slide lugs. The barrel hood needs to fit with minimal clearance side to side in the slide and NO clearance against the breech face. When unlocking, the barrel and slide need to clear (sounds obvious but some guns do not) before the barrel bottom lug bits the frame and stops. The contact must be on the heavy part of the bottom lug and not on the "feet" or you may find that they break off at some point. The two piece feed ramp needs a very well defined relation ship and it leaves very little room for adjustment which becomes even less if your pistol has much above minimum headspace."

Uh Huh, and so what? More distracting "white noise" as the M1911 was designed to accommodate universal interchangeability and utter reliability under the most challenging combat conditions, so the interaction of parts was such that close enough was good enough in an era where "Good enough for government work" was actually a very high standard. The millions of military M1911s that have been in hard service from it's adoption until...don't be shocked, today, do not have the reputation for the any of the problems you insinuate are prevalent. The John Moses Browning basic design is THE model of reliability.

"Something so simple as a replacement Mainspring housing may significantly affect your trigger pull and grip safety. Then again, it may not."
So what? What does this have to do with someone asking a recommendation for a stock M1911?

"These were all replacing a stock plastic part with a steel part."
What the heck are you talking about? Plastic? The only plastic on a real M1911 might be the left and right grip panels, and they have nothing to do with function. #43 in the diagram. Tell us what plastic parts you had to replace.View attachment 842600

The basic M 1911 can be completely dissassembled without tool :

- The leaf spring can be used as a screwdriver to remove the magazine release screw ;
- the grip screws can be unscrewed with the rim of a cartridge ;
- the firing pin can be removed with the hammer strut ;
- the firing pin can be used to push pins ;
- the hammer strut can also serve to remove the extractor.

But in practise, I would stick to my armorer's tools kit so as to preserve the finish of my .45.

 

[SaparotRob]

Rob, I had an actual military issue Colt 1911 ages ago and loved it. Due to it's age and service life, it had to be retired, though.
So I set out to find another and eventually found a suitable replacement with the Rock Island 1911A1 Tactical model.

You can read about it here:
The Guns We Own

Go check one out and see what you think.

Now to find out if I can legally own one in Thailand. Thanks for this link and the info.

 

[Ivan1GFP]

Now to find out if I can legally own one in Thailand. Thanks for this link and the info.

If you happen to be in Thailand, you may have some different options. The Rock Island guns are actually made in the Philippines, so there might be other routes. Another brand to consider is Norinco. The metallurgy on their gun is superb. I would buy another if I could but they are no longer imported into the USA. The only outright failure that I experienced with mine was that the slide stop wore out. A USGI part works as a direct replacement. As mentioned before, the barrel on mine was throated too much from the factory, but replacing the barrel with a match grade one wasn't that hard.
Another possibility is the Tisas. I haven't handled or fired one, but the reputation isn't bad.

If I had to buy a brand new M1911 type today, I would probably go with a medium grade Kimber. Problem for this discussion is that it would not look anything like a USGI M1911. The gun I was looking at a while back was stainless and had scale type checkering. Price was about $1350.
It wasn't unaffordable but I couldn't really justify another full size M1911. I had gone in looking for a Commander style gun.

- Ivan.

 

[SaparotRob]

If you happen to be in Thailand, you may have some different options. The Rock Island guns are actually made in the Philippines, so there might be other routes. Another brand to consider is Norinco. The metallurgy on their gun is superb. I would buy another if I could but they are no longer imported into the USA. The only outright failure that I experienced with mine was that the slide stop wore out. A USGI part works as a direct replacement. As mentioned before, the barrel on mine was throated too much from the factory, but replacing the barrel with a match grade one wasn't that hard.
Another possibility is the Tisas. I haven't handled or fired one, but the reputation isn't bad.

If I had to buy a brand new M1911 type today, I would probably go with a medium grade Kimber. Problem for this discussion is that it would not look anything like a USGI M1911. The gun I was looking at a while back was stainless and had scale type checkering. Price was about $1350.
It wasn't unaffordable but I couldn't really justify another full size M1911. I had gone in looking for a Commander style gun.

- Ivan.

I would be purchasing a M1911 more for historical reasons than as a shooter.

 

[Ivan1GFP]

I would be purchasing a M1911 more for historical reasons than as a shooter.

Seems like you have an awful lot of options. Most have been mentioned upthread.
I figure just about any well assembled M1911 commercial gun can shoot a 4-5 inch group and sometimes better.
Just keep in mind that just about any new gun will take about 100 rounds to settle down and function properly.
I find the magic number seems to be around 75 rounds.
GI style magazines are not hard to come by. I generally prefer Metalform brand because they are not expensive and seem to work very well.
Note that Metalform makes magazines with several different follower designs and some magazines are stainless so order accordingly. I generally can get them for around $15 each but I haven't needed to order any in a couple years.
No point in looking at anything from Kimber. I don't believe they make any gun without a beavertail grip safety and front slide serrations.

- Ivan.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

That's nuts. The first rule I was taught when learning how to handle a gun is "every gun is loaded" ... which means that you never point a barrel at anyone you don't want to shoot.

Even when you have emptied a gun yourself, you always treat it as loaded. Always.

To follow up, I read this in my news feed this morning.

An airman has been arrested by police in Cheyenne, Wyoming, and charged with involuntary manslaughter in the shooting death of another airman, the Air Force said Tuesday.

Senior Airman Joshua Aragon, a security forces specialist at F.E. Warren Air Force Base in Wyoming, died in the off-base, off-duty shooting incident that took place early on the morning of Aug. 16, the 90th Missile Wing said in a statement.

[...]

Cheyenne Police said in a post on social media that Orr, 20, was drinking alcohol at an apartment most of the night with several friends. According to the police, at about 3:30 a.m. Orr and two of those friends went into a bedroom where he picked up an AK-47 rifle.

Orr began manipulating the rifle, charged it, and fired through the wall into the living room, striking a 23-year-old male victim — later identified as Aragon — in the torso, police said.

Police officers responded and found people there trying to render aid to Aragon, police said. Emergency medical personnel arrived but declared Aragon dead on the scene.

Airman ID’d as victim in AK-47 shooting near Wyoming base

Police said Orr, 20, was drinking in an apartment with friends when he picked up an AK-47, which fired and fatally struck SrA Joshua Aragon.

www.airforcetimes.com

That a security policeman, of all people, should be this stupid with regard to gun safety is appalling.

 

[ThomasP]

LIke with driving, the reasons for mishandling a gun are many and varied - inexperience, arrogance, fatigue, stress, random brain fart, drugs, etc.