Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
Of course. The thing is though, only about 1/4th of Fighter Command was to run on 100 octane fuel, at least until about November, when they finally converted fully.
So how much representative is that..?
As it turned out, aviation spirit was to prove no worry for the RAF. By July 11th, the day after the Battle of Britain opened, stocks of 100 octane petrol used in the Merlin engine stood at 343,000 tons. On October 10th, 21 days before the battle closed, and after 22,000 tons had been issued, stocks had risen to 424,000 tons. With other grades of aviation spirit total stocks available on 10th October 1940 was 666,000 tons
I think Hops posting covers this itemOf course. The thing is though, only about 1/4th of Fighter Command was to run on 100 octane fuel, at least until about November, when they finally converted fully.
So how much representative is that..?
I admit this is new to me. My understanding was that the DB 605 was designed to run on 87 octane fuel (known as B4 fuel I believe) and later in 1944 was upgraded in to run on 96 octane fuel. As we are talking about 1942 this leaves the 109 with 87 Octane fuel. With your knowledge of the 109 I would expect you to know that, unless of course I am wrong again in which case assuming you can prove the point I will defer to your knowledge.Nope, the Germans had produced and used 100 octane fuel, that is, before the British had 100 octane fuel; in fact this was one the driving powers behind Britain being so eager to get 100 octane, too, but Britain was forced to import it, initially via vulnerable sea lanes, as it did not produce it domestically, unlike Germany.
Sorry SOren but yes I did. The climb was impacted but everything else was described as 'no noticable difference between this aeroplane and other Spitfire V types.'Well then please provide evidence to your baseless claim that adding two heavier cannnons to the Spitfire had 'minimal impact'.
You haven`t checked out four cannon Spitfire trials, have you?
I always said that this was something I remembered. In fact the actual figure I remembered was 385lb for the whole installation but was happy to be corrected. 45kg for the bottle is around 90lb. Less than I expected, but I am not going to argue.Well, probably there wasn`t a reply because you make up things, like this '350-400lb', and then ask me to prove it wrong instead of you backing up your own claims.
Now as to the factual value, GM-1 certainly didn`t add more to the G-1/G-3 than about 45 kg actually when the bottles were full, and I certainly fail to see the logic as to how this weight, when much of it was the GM1 fuel itself, and I fail to see how fuel, that have run out, adds weight...
I don`t doubt it. What it does prove though is that were at least 4-cannon Spits at Malta. On that famous photo on their Malta trip, I can see about half a dozen.
Thats pretty much sums up the role 4-cannon Spits during the war. Appearantly it didn`t work out. That leaves the Spit, save the almost-made-it Mk 21s, with two cannons possible only.
Sorry SOren but yes I did. The climb was impacted but everything else was described as 'no noticable difference between this aeroplane and other Spitfire V types.'
Source Spitfire Mk.Vc AA.873 Report
Well, probably there wasn`t a reply because you make up things, like this '350-400lb', and then ask me to prove it wrong instead of you backing up your own claims.
Now as to the factual value, GM-1 certainly didn`t add more to the G-1/G-3 than about 45 kg actually when the bottles were full, and I certainly fail to see the logic as to how this weight, when much of it was the GM1 fuel itself, and I fail to see how fuel, that have run out, adds weight...
I had to go with the 109. Just the staggering amount of losses they inflicted, they dominated the skies in the early stages of the war.
The Fw-190 Dora-9, Spitfire Mk.XIV F4U-4 Corsair are the three best massed produced piston engined fighters of the war IMO.
According to the Germans the Fw-190 kept its dominance over the Spitfire till the end, the Bf-109's esp. the Fw-190's racking up some VERY impressive tallies over the Channel in 43.
There are plenty of reports of 190's not recovering from dives.
and MkIX pilots had no trouble catching up to 190s that attempted to escape by diving.
Claidemore,
The FW-190 A-5 climbed at over 4,100 ft/min, and top SL speed was 570+ km/h, allot faster than the Spitfire Mk.IX. Hence the high tally the FW-190 acquired itself against the Spitfire over the Channel.
4100 is still less than 4700, and the 190 loses climb speed quickly as alt increases (compared to a Spitfire. Mk IX's are still climbing at over 2000ft/min at 30000ft!) Also the MkIX was superior to the 190As above 28,000ft in every respect, with a service ceiling 4000 feet higher.
With 25lbs boost the MkIX was 354-358 mph @ SL, exactly the same as the 190A-5, and still faster at other altitudes. As you know, RAF also started using Spitfire Mk XIIs, Typhoons and Tempests against the low level hit and run raids by FW190s cross-channel.
LoL, like one or possibly two ?
Like half the accounts in the two Canadian Spitfire books by Robert Bracken.
Claidemore the FW-190 had the lightest and best harmonized controls of ANY WW2 fighter, being capable of far more aggressive rolls pull outs than the Spitfire. Hence why the Split S maneuver was almost a foolproof escape maneuver for any 190 with a Spit on its tail, the Spitfire simply had no chance of following it.
Yes, agreed, if it had enough height to do it without augering in.
But, we hear this argument a lot and it speaks volumes to me. The advantage of the 190 was in "escaping", a defensive attitude, not an offensive one.
Also you need to remember at which speeds the actual fighting was taking place, cause at these speeds the 190 was everybit as good a turn fighter as the Spitfire, hence why most German after action reports note Spitfires shot down in 'Kurvenkampf', directly translated turn or angles fighting.
Ditto for the Spit pilots.
That's definitely not true Claidemore! The FW-190 enjoyed a great advantage in dive acceleration and speed!
Great advantage in dive acceleration, slim advantage in dive speed. Trouble is, the ground is only so far away, and thats as far as you can dive. Once the 190 levels off, it starts to lose speed quickly. The Spit is still above it, and can maintain a shallow dive angle long enough to catch the 190. Not saying the 190s never got away, just that they didn't always get away. That's how the Spit 1s and Hurricanes often caught 109E's in BoB as well.
In short the FW-190A stayed superior to the Spitfire Mk.IX except in climb rate and low speed turn performance. Not that it matted since the Dora-9 saw service in 44 and was a far superior fighter to both.
Yes, agreed, if it had enough height to do it without augering in.
But, we hear this argument a lot and it speaks volumes to me. The advantage of the 190 was in "escaping", a defensive attitude, not an offensive one.
The Spitfire Mk IX and FW190A were equal in climb only in the early production of Mk IXs with the Merlin 61. With the Merlin 66 and 70, the Spitfire had a marked climb advantage over the 190's and indeed most fighters till the end of the war. Best climb rate for a 190 would be 3200+ft/min, best climb rate for a MkIX would be 4700+ ft/min. No comparison.
The MkIX was also much superior in the climbing combat turn compared to the 190, 190s would always stall if they tried to follow a Spit in that maneuver.
The 190 had a faster intial dive, but the Spitfires max dive speed was comparable, and MkIX pilots had no trouble catching up to 190s that attempted to escape by diving.
In a dogfight at low altitude vs the Spit, the 190 was very much at a disadvantage, since it's best maneuver, the half-roll and dive, would be removed from the equation as alt got lower. There are plenty of reports of 190's not recovering from dives.
Most of the 190s success against Spitfires was against MkVs where it had large perfromance advantages. Once the Mk IX was in combat, the balance changed and got progressively worse for the 190 pilots. In fact some channel Jagedgeschwaders like JG2 switched from their 190As to late model 109s, and eventually to Dora 9's. (what's with that number 9?)
I'm not saying the 190 was completely dominated and decimated, they were still formidible fighters, but they certainly never again enjoyed air superiority as they had in their first operational year.