Best German Weapon of WWII
- Thread starter Yeomanz
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Nonskimmer
Captain
Heh! You're not a CoD fan are you Yeomanz? 
IMO, the best German weapon was the MG42. It was and is the finest light/medium machine gun ever produced, and was capable of an astonishing rate of fire of approx. 1200 rounds per minute.
It's still used today by the Bundeswehr, in slightly modified form, as the MG3.
The most innovative German weapon was unquestionably the MP44/Stg44, as it was the first true assault rifle and became the basis for the AK47.
IMO, the best German weapon was the MG42. It was and is the finest light/medium machine gun ever produced, and was capable of an astonishing rate of fire of approx. 1200 rounds per minute.
It's still used today by the Bundeswehr, in slightly modified form, as the MG3.
The most innovative German weapon was unquestionably the MP44/Stg44, as it was the first true assault rifle and became the basis for the AK47.
- Thread starter
- #3
cheddar cheese
Major General
Yeomanz said:
Steilhandgrenate!
And yup its in the right place 8)
GermansRGeniuses
Tech Sergeant
It's actually Stg.44, for Sturmgewehr.1944, which is basically "Assault Gun, 1944 Model."
Mp is an abbreviation of Maschinenpistole, which is basically Machine-Gun Pistol... (SMG nowadays)
Mp is an abbreviation of Maschinenpistole, which is basically Machine-Gun Pistol... (SMG nowadays)
- Thread starter
- #6
Nonskimmer
Captain
The German designers had originally designated the weapon 'MP44' for political reasons, to do with production priorities.
In short, Hitler himself didn't want his people to waste time developing some fancy new-fangled assault weapon that would require a retooling of production facilities, etc.
The designers, not wanting their new baby to go to waste, designated the project 'MP' so that it would seem as if they were developing a new machine pistol intead.
Once the potential of the weapon became clear to Hitler, all pretence was dropped, and it received the proper designation of 'Stg.44'.
In short, Hitler himself didn't want his people to waste time developing some fancy new-fangled assault weapon that would require a retooling of production facilities, etc.
The designers, not wanting their new baby to go to waste, designated the project 'MP' so that it would seem as if they were developing a new machine pistol intead.
Once the potential of the weapon became clear to Hitler, all pretence was dropped, and it received the proper designation of 'Stg.44'.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Nonskimmer said:Heh! You're not a CoD fan are you Yeomanz?
IMO, the best German weapon was the MG42. It was and is the finest light/medium machine gun ever produced, and was capable of an astonishing rate of fire of approx. 1200 rounds per minute.
It's still used today by the Bundeswehr, in slightly modified form, as the MG3.
The most innovative German weapon was unquestionably the MP44/Stg44, as it was the first true assault rifle and became the basis for the AK47.
I agree, the MG42 was probably the best German weapon of the war. However, I think the 1200 rpm RoF was too high for infantry use. It made it hard to aim in most situations, and used up ammo too fast. Anything over 900 rpm is too fast, and 600-700 rpm is much more reasonable.
I don't believe the AK-47 has anything in common with the MP44 design wise. It may or may not have inspired it, but I think not. I saw an interview with Kalashnikov (sp?) and he explained the progression of designs that lead to the AK-47 and it made sense w/o reference to the MP44.
=S=
Lunatic
Nonskimmer
Captain
RG_Lunatic said:
Actually, it did.
While Kalashnikov's design was certainly innovative in it's own right, he used the Stg.44 as a starting point along with the existing Soviet SKS rifle, when he began his initial work on the design of the first AK rifle in 1946. Of course, he was able to improve much on the original design of the rifle's action, and the AK47 reflects this.
He by no means copied the design directly, but he was able to use it's principles as a basis for his work. In much the same way as the Israeli Galil was influenced by the Kalashnikov rifles. In that case, the similarities are much more obvious (the action of the Galil is essentially identical to that of the AK47), but it's been an age old practice in small-arms development to take an existing principle and improve upon the design.
I agree that the higher rate of fire of the MG42 was far too great for accurate aiming, but that wasn't exactly the intention.
The weapon had basically two selectable rates of fire: one of approx. 750rpm and the other of approx. 1200rpm. The latter was intended for "sweeping" actions, of limited endurance. Sustained fire at that rate quickly overheated the barrels, and in fact the weapon almost always came equipped with an extra barrel.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Well, according to Kalashnikov he'd never seen the MP44 and had been working on the AK-47 without knowlege of it before the end of WWII. Watch for the interview, they show it on The History Channel pretty frequently.
Even firing at 750 rpm from an air cooled machine gun will overheat the barrels very quickly. Sustained rates of fire are probably 15-20% the cyclic RoF, perhaps less.
Yes the MG42 came with a spare barrel attached (though usually removed prior to actual combat) and was setup for quick field changes.
=S=
Lunatic
Even firing at 750 rpm from an air cooled machine gun will overheat the barrels very quickly. Sustained rates of fire are probably 15-20% the cyclic RoF, perhaps less.
Yes the MG42 came with a spare barrel attached (though usually removed prior to actual combat) and was setup for quick field changes.
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Lunatic
Nonskimmer
Captain
I watched the History Channel quite frequently in the past.
I admit I haven't in quite awhile, but I think I've seen something along the lines of what you describe.
Kalashnikov was definitley brilliant, IMO.
I admit I haven't in quite awhile, but I think I've seen something along the lines of what you describe.
Kalashnikov was definitley brilliant, IMO.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Nonskimmer said:
Agreed. He got into military engineering by presenting a new tachometer design for tank engines which Stalin liked while recovering from battle injuries.
Watch for it comming up on THC, I think it's in the series "Tales of the Gun" but it might be in "Modern Marvels".
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Lunatic
Nonskimmer
Captain
I'll watch out for it. Thanks.
GermansRGeniuses
Tech Sergeant
'Didja hear about the Vodka he just released?
Yes, Kalashnikov, the designer of the most profilic gun in widespread use, released a Vodka bearing his name recently.
Why?
He didn't want his name only to be associated with something violent...
Yes, Kalashnikov, the designer of the most profilic gun in widespread use, released a Vodka bearing his name recently.
Why?
He didn't want his name only to be associated with something violent...
Nonskimmer
Captain
GermansRGeniuses
Tech Sergeant
Here it is, then!
http://ak47-vodka.cdetc.com/
and here: http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/09/20/kalashnikov.vodka.reut/
http://ak47-vodka.cdetc.com/
and here: http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/09/20/kalashnikov.vodka.reut/
Nonskimmer
Captain
I like how the rifle appears on the label, with him!
HealzDevo
Staff Sergeant
I would have to say in my opinion that the best German Weapon overall was the Bf109. I don't really know whether it is personnel weapons you are talking about or overall. It was the fighter/bomber that stayed in production for so long and was deadly in all its varients to Hurricanes and could stand up to Spitfires. I think personally though the German Anti-Tank Gun, whatever that was, was the most useful and therefore Best German Personnel weapon of WW2, judging by its usefulness in Bf1942. It rocks for taking out massed enemy infantry as well as tanks, jeeps and APCs. Only thing it isn't equipped to deal with is aircraft...
A
Anonymous
Guest
The MG42 was an outstanding weapon unmatched in WWII, and is still pretty much the standard of design. The M60 and several other SAW type weapons are based upon it even today.
The Panzerfaust was a powerful weapon, but the US bazooka was its equal. Not as powerful, but better range and accuracy, and sufficient to take out most german tanks (except maybe the Tiger II) from any angle other than the front.
The Bf-109 was produced for political reasons more than its quality. By 1941 it was outclassed by the Spitfire and it continued to fall behind from there on. Only half as many 190's as 109's were made because Willie Messershmitt was tighter with the Nazi's than Kurt Tank, even though the FW was by far the superior plane. Had tank been given his choice in engines rather than having to make due with something Messershmitt didn't want, the 190 line might have been far better than it was. Many other designers simply didn't get contracts because of politics.
The 109 is the plane that lost the Battle of Britain. Had the German's had the A6M2 Zero instead, they may well have won. The 109 had no range, and that made it a looser for supporting any kind of serious offensive airwar.
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Lunatic
The Panzerfaust was a powerful weapon, but the US bazooka was its equal. Not as powerful, but better range and accuracy, and sufficient to take out most german tanks (except maybe the Tiger II) from any angle other than the front.
The Bf-109 was produced for political reasons more than its quality. By 1941 it was outclassed by the Spitfire and it continued to fall behind from there on. Only half as many 190's as 109's were made because Willie Messershmitt was tighter with the Nazi's than Kurt Tank, even though the FW was by far the superior plane. Had tank been given his choice in engines rather than having to make due with something Messershmitt didn't want, the 190 line might have been far better than it was. Many other designers simply didn't get contracts because of politics.
The 109 is the plane that lost the Battle of Britain. Had the German's had the A6M2 Zero instead, they may well have won. The 109 had no range, and that made it a looser for supporting any kind of serious offensive airwar.
=S=
Lunatic
BombTaxi
Tech Sergeant
I plumped for the Panzerfaust, because the concept behind it revolutionised the battlefield (IMHO).
I fully appreciate the impact of the Stg.44 and MG42 on the modern battlefied, but they were, ultimately, refinements of existing concepts. On the other hand, the panzerfaust and its predecessors were the first weapons to give the infantry section the power to destroy an MBT with one shot. This radically changed the battlefield relationship between tanks and infantry, insofar as it was now essential for tanks to be protected by infantry, so that enemy infantry could not destroy them. Also, the Panzerfaust represented a truly mass-produceable AT weapon. AT guns were big, and a battalion could only have a few. But a Panzerfaust/Bazooka/PIAT was cheap, portable, and could be issued in hundereds or even thousands to formations.
So, Panzerfaust gets my vote 8)
I fully appreciate the impact of the Stg.44 and MG42 on the modern battlefied, but they were, ultimately, refinements of existing concepts. On the other hand, the panzerfaust and its predecessors were the first weapons to give the infantry section the power to destroy an MBT with one shot. This radically changed the battlefield relationship between tanks and infantry, insofar as it was now essential for tanks to be protected by infantry, so that enemy infantry could not destroy them. Also, the Panzerfaust represented a truly mass-produceable AT weapon. AT guns were big, and a battalion could only have a few. But a Panzerfaust/Bazooka/PIAT was cheap, portable, and could be issued in hundereds or even thousands to formations.
So, Panzerfaust gets my vote 8)
