Best Single Engine Fighter-Bomber (WW2)

wuzak · Sep 16, 2018

A couple of errors to point out Greg.

From the Wiki article:

GregP said:
Each Fighter group was composed of three squadrons of 16 fighters. Initially USAAF used Mk. V and in August 1943 MTO units received Mk.IX and XVIII planes.

These units would have received Mk.IX and Mk.XVI Spitfires, not Mk.XVIII.

The Mk.XVI was the Mk.IX with a Packard built engine (Merlin 266 for most, I believe). The Mk.XVIII was a development of the Mk.XIV that appeared late in 1944 or early 1945.

GregP said:
Looks like we used Spitfires in small numbers from around September 1942 until mid-1944 for a few Fighter Groups, and Spitfires from mid-1943 alonside (mid-1944) the F-6 version of the P-51. We phased them out in mid-1944 except maybe for the 14th Photo Recoinnaissance Squadron. They used the F-4 Lightning at first and got Spitfire Vs in July 1943. Looks like they flew Spitfires until July 1945, after which they turned in their aircraft and returned to the USA.

The USAAF used PR.XIs for photo recon, not Vs.

As stated in the article you quoted:
"Alongside American-built F-5 Lightning and F-6 Mustang reconnaissance planes some Spitfire PR.XI planes were operated in Europe and the Mediterranean."

In some cases they actually changed from the US aircraft (F-5) to the Spitfire PR.XI.

The XI was fitted with a two stage supercharged Merlin, whereas the V was not. Also, the XI had the leading edge fuel tanks and no armament. But did not have the pressurised cockpit.

The XI could cruise at 390mph+ at 32,000ft - much faster than the V could fly - and had a top speed of 417mph.

Glider · Sep 17, 2018

You could say that the USN used the Spit V on D Day. A number of USN floatplane plots flew the Spit V to assist the USN with their shore bombardment role as the floatplanes were deemed to vulnerable to be used over the beaches.
I am pretty sure that these were just lent to the USN for the purpose and didn't 'officially' become USN equipment but they did fly them.

GregP · Sep 17, 2018

Not my text, Wayne. Copied it from Wiki. It's the worst reference on the internet except for no reference, no argument. And the quote above didn't give any updates for original equipment issued, nor did I look for them. All I did was type in a single search phrase.

Another less-than-triumph for Wikipedia ... But, it DID stimulate more conversation.

Since you might want to correct it, here is the URL:

List of Supermarine Spitfire operators - Wikipedia

Cheers.

swampyankee · Sep 17, 2018

Glider said:
You could say that the USN used the Spit V on D Day. A number of USN floatplane plots flew the Spit V to assist the USN with their shore bombardment role as the floatplanes were deemed to vulnerable to be used over the beaches.
I am pretty sure that these were just lent to the USN for the purpose and didn't 'officially' become USN equipment but they did fly them.

I read that the USN observer squadrons also flew P-51s, albeit with borrowed USAAF pilots.

Conslaw · Sep 18, 2018

Here's a website by the son of a P47N pilot from the 318th Fighter Group on Ie Shima. It has a lot of good pictures of loaded P-47N models. The author said his father regularly flew from Ie Shima to Kyushu, a 500 mile journey loaded with 10 x HVAR, 2 x1,000lb, plus 8x.5 with 450 rounds each. The P47N could carry 6 or 8 guns. Many carried 6xM3 50-cal. The M3 had half again the rate of fire as the standard M2 that most US fighters used, so a 6-gun Thunderbolt didn't give up in weight of fire compared to an 8 gun M2 machine. The 318th FG site said the pilots complained about the loads they were supposed to carry from the 3,800 foot field at Ie Shima, but they don't say what that load was.

R Leonard · Sep 21, 2018

When speaking, errrrr, writing of things in the Pacific, I would not get too carried away rating the F4U over the F6F.

GrauGeist · Sep 21, 2018

The squadron that was formed for the USN spotter operation of the landings was VCS-7.
They were USN pilots and the Spitfire Mk.Vb were on loan to them.
The USN pilots were from the SOC and OS2U compliments of the USS Nevada, USS Texas, USS Arkansas, USS Quincy, USS Augusta and USS Tuskaloosa.
After their operation was over, the Spitfires were returned to the British and the pilots went back to their floatplanes and regular scouting duties.

R Leonard · Sep 21, 2018

VCS-7 flew Spitfires at Normandy; VCS-8 flew P-51s in southern France.

GrauGeist · Sep 21, 2018

R Leonard said:
VCS-7 flew Spitfires at Normandy; VCS-8 flew P-51s in southern France.

Also of note: VCS-8's Mustangs were the F6-A

R Leonard · Sep 22, 2018

Not to be argumentative, but, according to the US Navy, VCS-8 flew P-51C's.

R

Shortround6 · Sep 22, 2018

From : North American F-6 Mustang

"
Most published accounts give the following production figures for the F-6.

Designation...............Based On.....................Number Produced
F-6A..........................P-51..............................55
F-6B..........................P-51A............................35
F-6C-NA.....................P-51B............................71
F-6C-NT.....................P-51C............................20
F-6D.........................P-51D-NT.......................136*
F-6K..........................P-51K...........................164

However these are probably too low. Robert Bourlier, who has been looking through the production cards, has found significantly higher figures:

An NAA publication 'Summary of Changes' for the P-51 lists 146 serial numbers for the F-6D-10-NA and F-6D-15-NA.

The cards have produced similar figures:

One prototype XF-6D from a P-51D-5-NA

99 P-51D-10-NA converted to F-6D-10-NA and 47 P-51D-15-NA converted to F-6D-15-NA for a total of 147 F-6Ds from these blocks
5 F-6D-20 -NA for the Swiss, 12 F-6D-20-NA and 6 F-6D-25NA for the Frnch, for a total fo 170 F-6D so far.

68 P-51C-10-NT converted to the F-6C-10-NT and 159 P-51C noted as being converted to the photo recon version in some way."

I don't know if this is right or not but apparently there is room for confusion as to whether a specific plane (or small group of planes) were P-51C/D or were F-6C/Ds even based on serial numbers as originally built/contracted for.

MIflyer · Sep 22, 2018

Best single engined fighter bomber of WWII?

That has to be the P-38!

It was the only one that carried a spare engine!

michaelmaltby · Sep 22, 2018

... valid point

michael rauls · Sep 22, 2018

For best single engine fighter/ bomber I would vote for the p47 with the F4u a close second would be a tie for me but ive read the Corsair had a low availability rate at least compaired to the F6F.

Clayton Magnet · Sep 22, 2018

I would vote for the F4U, provided it was armed with 20mm cannons. The P-47 was a great bomb truck, but was completely out of its element at low altitudes.
Perhaps the F series Fw 190 was the best all around fighter bomber, with good load carrying capability, good gun armament and good low altitude fighter performance. Tempest series should rate high, but always seemed like a missed opportunity to me, as the chin radiator should have been dropped with the Typhoon.

MIflyer · Sep 22, 2018

Pilots who few both the P-40 and the P-51 in combat said that the P-40 was better for ground attack because it had a chin mounted radiator. You are much more likely to get hit in the aft fuselage on a ground attack mission than the nose.

There was nothing wrong with the Typhoon that an R-2800 could not have fixed.

Clayton Magnet · Sep 22, 2018

or Centaurus

michael rauls · Sep 22, 2018

Clayton Magnet said:
I would vote for the F4U, provided it was armed with 20mm cannons. The P-47 was a great bomb truck, but was completely out of its element at low altitudes.
Perhaps the F series Fw 190 was the best all around fighter bomber, with good load carrying capability, good gun armament and good low altitude fighter performance. Tempest series should rate high, but always seemed like a missed opportunity to me, as the chin radiator should have been dropped with the Typhoon.

Good point. If you are using p47s for ground attack probably best to have top cover of some kind. Don't want to get caught low and slow in a p47 ladden with ordinance. I suppose that would apply to any fighter/ bomber but probably more so to the Thunderbolt.

CORSNING · Sep 22, 2018

GregP said:
The SDB had 52,687 Action Sorties (Combat), dropped 15,621 tons of bombs on targets, and accounted for 138 aerial victories (31 bombers and 107 fighters).
But I don't think it makes the SDB a better fighter/bomber than the P-47 by any stretch of the imagination.[/QUOTE]

Greg my man, great post. But what about off of a flight deck?

michael rauls · Sep 22, 2018

MIflyer said:
Pilots who few both the P-40 and the P-51 in combat said that the P-40 was better for ground attack because it had a chin mounted radiator. You are much more likely to get hit in the aft fuselage on a ground attack mission than the nose.

There was nothing wrong with the Typhoon that an R-2800 could not have fixed.

Ive read that also many of the p40s, the N model specifically had some armor around the engine. Don't know about the earlier modles in this regard but they seem to have had good survivability particularly for a plane with a liquid cooled engine.

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