BF 109 Dive Rate

Discussion in 'Flight Test Data' started by Catch22, Jul 23, 2009.

  1. Catch22

    Catch22 Well-Known Member

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    Hello everyone!

    My brother and I have had a long running argument about the Bf 109's dive rate. He is convinced that it could outdive pretty much any other single engined fighter, but he doesn't know where he heard it or anything. I have heard the same thing, but I don't think it would be able to outdive a much heavier plane like the P-47 or the F4U. Can anyone enlighten me?
     
  2. drgondog

    drgondog Well-Known Member

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    The critical dive speed that I saw in the past was .77 Mach. I do not know which model that represents and I do not have a link. Kurfurst or Soren can probably put their fingers on it quickly.

    Heavy isn't the issue, drag rise and critical mach number is the issue.
     
  3. Catch22

    Catch22 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, thanks for the quick answer. I really don't know a whole lot of the science behind a lot of this stuff, so that's why I assumed the weight would be a major factor, but now I know it isn't! My argument my be in trouble. :lol:
     
  4. Daviducus2

    Daviducus2 Member

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    Gunther Rall:

    Anyway, I was chased by P-47. I knew exactly that in a dive P-47 is much faster than 109. And the P-47 has a much higher structural strength. They can go up to 1400 kilometers per hour. The 109, if you go to 1000, pull it up, you risk that the wings come off.

    virtualpilots.fi: WW2History-GuntherRallEnglish.html
     
  5. Dark Matter

    Dark Matter Banned

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    If you went into a dive in a Bf-109 above the G-10 version it had very poor elavater control.

    I would never recomend diving unless its a shallow dive in the Bf-109.
     
  6. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    #6 DerAdlerIstGelandet, Jul 23, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2009
    There is something not right about that statement of his.

    1400 kmh = 870 mph (no P-47 is going to go that fast even in a dive....)

    1000 kmh = 621 mph (no Bf 109 or P-47 is going to go that fast in a dive...)

    I am sure the P-47 could out dive the Bf 109, but Rall was certainly exaggerating those numbers. From my understanding the P-47 was the fastest diving aircraft and could reach speeds of 550 mph in a dive.

    I think that was Rall said was to liven up the story and put some humor in it. I am sure if you actually listen to the tapes you will hear a chuckle from him as he speaks. Sort of like the "No ****, there I was stories."
     
  7. Dark Matter

    Dark Matter Banned

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    Good point Adler, I didn't see that.
     
  8. davebender

    davebender Well-Known Member

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    Poor elevator control at what speed?
     
  9. Daviducus2

    Daviducus2 Member

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    Yes, I think Rall's statement can fairly be taken to indicate that in his opinion, which was informed by a great deal of first hand experience on this very subject, the P-47 was not at risk of losing its 109 prey if it chose to make a run for the deck.
     
  10. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    Exactly...
     
  11. Dark Matter

    Dark Matter Banned

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    At above 550 kph.
     
  12. Dark Matter

    Dark Matter Banned

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    Actualy I ment 650 kph.
     
  13. davebender

    davebender Well-Known Member

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    That more or less squares with accounts I have read. How does it compare with the contenporary Spitfire, P-38, P-47 and P-51 fighter aircraft? Everyone knows the massive P-47 has a very high sustained dive speed. But how fast can it dive and still respond well to the controls?
     
  14. Dark Matter

    Dark Matter Banned

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    #14 Dark Matter, Jul 24, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2009
    Its alot faster then most planes.

    Maybe I did mean 550 kph after all. :oops:

    The P-47 is a great diver, it has good high speed control from all the forms I read.
     
  15. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    Please use the edit button next time...
     
  16. Glider

    Glider Well-Known Member

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    The Me 109 G was red lined at 466mph whereas the Spit IX was redlined at around 455mph so the difference wasn't great but the 109 in a dive accelerated faster so had a tactical advantage greater than the actual numbers indicated. Its a short term gain as Terra Ferma will be reached sooner or later.

    However the P51 and P47 were redlined at speeds in excess of 500 mph so the 109 was at a significant disadvantage when trying to dive away.

    I am trying to dig out the exact numbers but this is a rough guide
     
  17. Catch22

    Catch22 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for all of the answers guys, this is really helpful.
     
  18. Glider

    Glider Well-Known Member

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    I believe that the P51D was redlined at 505 mph and the P47D limited to 520 mph.
     
  19. davebender

    davebender Well-Known Member

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    If you are flying 400 mph in level flight how long does it take to reach 500+ mph in a dive with a WWII era fighter aircraft?
     
  20. Glider

    Glider Well-Known Member

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    You may as well ask how long is a piece of string
     
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