Hi
Images from 'Britain's Wonderful Air Force' of January 1942 showing methods of winching for bombing up of Stirling and Wellington:
Mike
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HiNo. The bomb was attached to the rack, the sway braces (crutches in RAF speak) adjusted to fit and then the complete assembly winched into the aircraft. As you can see in post 43 there is no way that you could get your arms between the bomb and bomb bay skirt to adjust the sway braces in situ.
This part of Fig 4 in post 41 shows the bomb and rack attached to the cable and hanging about a foot below the installed position.
View attachment 791924
This part shows the assembly pulled all the way up
View attachment 791925
and this shows the swivel locking hook engaged in the loading link. Once the link is fully engaged the adjusting screw is screwed down firmly and then the cable tension is released. and cable and pulley cradle are moved to the next location. The spring loaded control for the adjusting screw works a bit like the direction control on a ratchet wrench. Move it one way and you can only tighten, move it the other way and you can loosen the adjusting screw.
View attachment 791926
The manual describes it thus. In (iii) it makes more sense with a comma after the word bomb or it said Fit the carrier to the bomb, adjust the crutches, set the fuse units and links.
View attachment 791927
This diagram from the RAF manual may describe it better. View D shows the rack and bomb assembly when it has just cleared the trolley.
View attachment 791928
Okay, I understand: The layout is pretty well thought-out. I'm honestly surprised we didn't use a system like this.No. The bomb was attached to the rack, the sway braces (crutches in RAF speak) adjusted to fit and then the complete assembly winched into the aircraft. As you can see in post 43 there is no way that you could get your arms between the bomb and bomb bay skirt to adjust the sway braces in situ.
HiHi
In continuation of my previous post, here is a composite photo of winching a 4,000 lb HC into a Lancaster, with winch fitted inside cabin above bomb bay, from page 134 in 'Bombs Gone, The development and use of British air-dropped weapons from 1912 to the present day', by MacBean and Hogben:
View attachment 792006
Mike
| Date | B-17 Sent | B-17 attack | B-24 Sent | B-24 attack |
4-Mar-44 | 238 | 30 | ||
6-Mar-44 | 262 | 246 | 226 | 198 |
8-Mar-44 | 415 | 320 | 209 | 183 |
9-Mar-44 | 361 | 339 | ||
22-Mar-44 | 474 | 460 | 214 | 197 |
29-Apr-44 | 446 | 368 | 233 | 212 |
7-May-44 | 600 | 514 | ||
8-May-44 | 500 | 386 | ||
19-May-44 | 588 | 495 | ||
24-May-44 | 616 | 464 | ||
21-Jun-44 | 703 | 559 | 386 | 47 |
6-Aug-44 | 154 | 132 | ||
12-Sep-44 | 0 | 0 | ||
6-Oct-44 | 418 | 382 | ||
5-Dec-44 | 451 | 404 | ||
3-Feb-45 | 1004 | 937 | ||
26-Feb-45 | 823 | 781 | 361 | 285 |
18-Mar-45 | 980 | 916 | 347 | 305 |
28-Mar-45 | 446 | 383 | ||
| Totals | 9,479 | 8,116 | 1,976 | 1,427 |
| Type | Mosquito | Lancaster | Halifax | Stirling |
| 1000 TI | 347 | 1,882 | ||
| 1000 Smoke | 0 | 34 | ||
| 500 Smoke | 17 | 20 | ||
| 250 TI | 16,632 | 29,792 | 3,272 | 883 |
| 250 Spot Fire | 396 | 538 | 12 | |
| 250 Smoke | 0 | 2 | ||
| 250 Float | 32 | |||
| 100 Smoke | 10 |
HiHi
The winch appears to be similar to this one from page 135 of 'RAF Ground Support Equipment Since 1918' by F J Adkin:
View attachment 792014
Mike
Here is an engineering drawing that presents the same information as the above drawing, but in what I think is a more understandable format. It's for a B-17F, but should apply to the B-17G. Earlier versions of this drawing do not show a 1600 pound bomb loading.
In addition, here's a Data Card for the B-17F. The Data Card for the B-17G looks similar, but the Weight Data now resides in a Weight and Balance Handbook stored by the main entrance door or in the Navigator's compartment. That is also true for some later versions of the B-17F. The Data Card is mounted to the front of the door in Bulkhead 4, just above the Flight Reports holder.
Finally here is a chart which is posted in the A/C, with the full title of: Maximum Airplane Glide & Climb Angles for Bomb Release. Not sure what it all means, but am sure someone in this forum will know.
Single aircraft straight-line range (the 1,170 miles you cite) never was used with the B-17.If you check the manual for the B17f with 6,000 lbs in the bomb bay and 8,000 on external wing racks (14,000lbs) she had a range of 1170 miles IIRC. I think this was enough to reach just about any target in Germany. So it'd be reasonable to assume with the 12,800 lb load she had enough range to be useful. However, to get this range it would have meant dropping the altitude and flying straight in and out of target area.
Single aircraft straight-line range (the 1,170 miles you cite) never was used with the B-17.
In real-life missions the aircraft took off, with the earlier aircraft holding until all were up (which took considerable time), then they formed into formations which flew a "least-threat" course to their target - cutting the actual range about in half.
Correct - I was being generous... but the point remains - citing single-aircraft straight-line max range in a wartime scenario is misleading at a minimum.Book range divided by three is what IRL range was, so far as I understand it.
Correct - I was being generous... but the point remains - citing single-aircraft straight-line max range in a wartime scenario is misleading at a minimum.
N371G?An excellent post as it answers the un-asked but important related question of what the aircraft pitch angle limits were for safely releasing the bombs and partially answers the post 4 quetion on clearance angles.
This incidentally means the B-17 could not be used, like the Pathfinder Lancasters were, as a dive bomber for target marking. There may, of course, have been mods to those aircraft but because it is a long wide bay I would expect there were just limitations on which locations the markers could be carried.
I find the picture labelled B17F_bomb_load_1 most interesting as it infers that the B-17F had a maximum bomb capacity of just 2,000lb. I think that highly unlikely but I have never studied at the B-17 loads. Is this the load when carrying the maximum wing fuel load? Again I think no.
I will comment on one earlier claim, I cannot remember who from, that the B-17 had a minimum bomb load of 4,000lb. What utter rubbish. That suggests that any B-17 ferry flight required at least 4,000lb of bombs or ballast to be carried and I can promise you that it not correct. Just as well the Collings B-17 was not carrying bombs or ballast or that accident would have been far worse and I know from being there that the Planes of Fame B-17 did many flights in the early 70s without any such ballast without any accidents or incidents.
N371G?
I hope to meet the Piccadilly Lilly. I think watching 12 O'clock High with my dad is why I love the B-17. The Piccadilly Lilly is my favorite plane of my favorite planes.An excellent post as it answers the OP's
Cant remember the rego - over 50 years ago. Piccadilly Lilly or some name like that I think - or was that the other one flying then?