Camera stowage on larger RAF aircraft

[Tony Hill]

Early on, the larger bombers carried hand held cameras to record what would later be semi automated in bombing cameras.

My question is whether anyone knows HOW and WHERE these cameras (presumably F24 types) were stowed when not in use.
I have a friend restoring an early war light bomber/recon and am at a loss to help!


regards

Darryl

 

[MiTasol]

This is what the Hendon manual says - no mention of where the camera is stored when not in use

On the Beauforts it was either hard mounted in the gunners compartment forward and to the right of the turret, or left behind, depending on the flight. I suspect that applied to most aircraft.

 

[buffnut453]

It would be an easier question to answer if we knew the type of aircraft. Each airframe would have a different location for the camera(s), so it's hard to given a meaningful answer without more details.

 

[Crimea_River]

As far as I'm aware, the cameras were installed and removed when the aircraft was on the ground and mounted in the various brackets as shown above for the mission duration.

 

[MiTasol]

It would be an easier question to answer if we knew the type of aircraft. Each airframe would have a different location for the camera(s), so it's hard to given a meaningful answer without more details.

Exactly

I think there are Mosquito manuals on site - that will show the location in them (down the back from memory)

Some Ansons had them front and centre in the nose (which would be very crowded) and some near the main cabin door. I think some had it near the turret as well.

If my memory is right (50/50) the Oxford had it in the cabin just behind the rear spar on the RH side.

I can't remember where they were on the Bolingbroke but that was probably the same as the Blenheim.

The Hendon page could be read that the camera is stowed under floor with the mounting when not in use which makes sense otherwise you would be carrying a box to stow the thing which is added weight and wasted space. Apart from the Hendon I cannot think of an aircraft where it appears to be movable in flight.

 

[Tony Hill]

Thank you all.

I cut and paste my draft and didn't realise the aircraft wasn't in it. He is building/restoring and Anson.

 

[MiTasol]

One of these days when I can find it I will post a scan of my Anson manuals. Had them in my hands before xmas and cannot find it. Promised a scan to someone else so will have to keep looking. At least I found my Scarab manuals for Gumbyk

 

[Tony Hill]

Thank you Sir!

 

[MiTasol]

Hi Darryl

Good news bad news

I have just posted AP 1525 Sec 11 Armament and Equipment to Anson manuals to Anson manuals

The bad news is it only lightly covers the nose camera install but does include a reference to the rear installation. I have some of the mod leaflets and they are mainly very brittle 1960s silver photocopies so are difficult to scan. I do not know if I have the two referenced in the manual.

 

[MiTasol]

In the supposedly removed section of the manual is this info on the rear F24 camera giving location as 120" aft of the datum (front of windscreen) which is well forward of where I thought it was. There is nothing in the repair manual and the mod leaflets I thought I had are actually the Tech Service Bulletins with no reference in the index to the camera install.

Item 34

 

[Tony Hill]

Thanks a million!! I will pass them on.
Great stuff.

 

[MiTasol]

From a friend with an Anson.
If your friend has anything on how and where the hydraulic pump for the Bristol turret was mounted he would like to know. He has the pump and mounting bracket but has no idea where it goes and what it is attached to and does not know which of the two camera mounts was most common. He suspects the standard one and I suspect that the tripod one was actually a bench mounting tool for maintenance or a training mount for class rooms even though it was found bent and broken with an Anson.

 

[nuuumannn]

I suspect that the tripod one was actually a bench mounting tool for maintenance or a training mount for class rooms even though it was found bent and broken with an Anson.

Is your friend restoring a Canadian Anson VI? It had a Bristol Mk.IV turret, but the standard Mk.I had an Armstrong Whitworth unpowered turret.

 

[MiTasol]

Many British and Australian Mk I & IV Ansons had the Bristol B1 Mk V and VI turrets and one being restored in Adelaide has the B1 Mk 1 or 1E turret (I am told it is a 1E but until I see the nameplate and gun mount I will not know for certain - it is definitely a B1 Mk1 though and is the turret fitted when recovered).

The Anson Mk IV was basically a Mk I with Wright Whirlwind engines.

Below are several clips from the 1944 UK AP. I have a lot of work to do on these scans yet as I have two copies of AP 1525 which are different revision standards, the early being quite clean and the later well used, "folded mutilated and spindled" as they say, and very fragile with torn pages. The well used one has many pages out of order - eg sect 11 pages in sect 2 - so also needs putting in correct page order as it is scanned so must be hand scanned with some pages ironed before scanning. This is not helped by many revision pages having no numbers - the Brits (and Australians) were allergic to the US practice of having page nA, nB etc that enables US manuals that as messed up to easily be collated in the correct order. This means as I scan every page I must number it according to where it was inserted, adding the A's B's etc as necessary as well as moving wrongly positioned clearly identified pages to their correct locations. It is supposed to keep me out of the pub but sometimes drives me to the bottle.

A couple of screen shots of one other manual currently in progress- DUD is a page I must find another copy of as per sample below, k1 & k2 indicate halves of a foldout that still must be spliced - the code is Chapter, Section Page# with a sequential suffix for pages with no numbers. This particular chapter has pages numbered 1-66 including two lots of pages numbered 21-32 (including multiple un-numbered pages) giving a total page count of 156 but at least six pages are missing. This pig of a thing will keep me busy for weeks yet and I will probably scan the Fairey Hendon next so I can get it re-stapled on my next trip to Brisbane.

 

[MiTasol]

Mk V or VI in Anson - wartime photo

Postwar photo Mk V or VI

And from the Brit AP on the subject

 

[MiTasol]

According to another source the simple camera mount shown above was the stowage used when the F24 was being used as a hand held camera. This may or may not be the camera referred to on page 11 of section 3 which I will post later today.

The Australian Archives have a file on cameras in Ansons that your friend can request. They are slow and expensive but that might be his best source of info as Aus generally followed Britain on Ansons. Try this link Session expired | RecordSearch | National Archives of Australia

I am waiting on a 1938 Anson manual but that is several months away and depends on no more border closures. It may, or may not, have more detail.