Canopy open wind (4 Viewers)

[Maxrobot1]

In aircraft that had a back-seater, when the pilot had his canopy open, did the wind blow through to the back seat guy (s)?
In the Grumman Avenger, would the wind blow past the pilot's headrest, into the center compartment and even down into the radio compartment? I can imagine maps and papers blowing around!
How about other types? I can imagine the back seater getting wind blasted in the back of the head for the whole flight!
Think about the many types - Dauntless, SNJ/AT-6, Me-110, Stuka, etc.

 

[Capt. Vick]

Good question...

 

[Engineman]

Wind is always a problem in two-seaters.

Eng

 

[smutny]

The back seat of a T-6 can get a little breezy when the front is open, but it isn't gale force winds. Just what curls around the windshield. Just like flying an open cockpit airplane.

 

[Engineman]

Wind is always a problem in two-seaters.

Eng

If you get a warning, you can go onto 100% oxygen though.

Eng

 

[SaparotRob]

Or, 101 proof Bourbon.

 

[special ed]

I can only personally comment on the Cessna L-19/O-1. In flight with the rear seat windows swung in and latched at the ceiling, there was no noticeable wind increase. In fact one could reach out 2 to 3 inches before encountering the slipstream. Photography was done with the lens near the edge of the opening with no problems. In fact, on one flight, the front seat left side window was left latched out and up to the wing underside with no wind increase. The noise was another matter, however.

 

[Acree]

The pilot's technical order (T.O.) for the B-52 says that the pilot and copilot's windows may be opened inflight at relatively low speeds (I no longer remember the airspeed limit, but certainly 200 KIAS or more). I just had to try it. So, in the traffic pattern one day I opened the window. There was very little wind, but a lot of noise. These windows are at the "corner" between the front-facing windscreen and the side windows, at an angle, so you would expect it to draw in a lot of air. But wind patterns around the airframe are wierd. A little rudder input may have changed things dramatically. I'm pretty sure most B-52 pilots have tried it at one time or another!

 

[Engineman]

My first solo was in an aircraft with no doors or windows.

Eng

 

[smutny]

I can only personally comment on the Cessna L-19/O-1. In flight with the rear seat windows swung in and latched at the ceiling, there was no noticeable wind increase.

When I fly Cub with the doors open I do get wind noise on the rear seat headset mic, but a little left rudder cuts down on that. But I'm only chugging along at 75 mph.

 

[Engineman]

My first solo was in an aircraft with no doors or windows.

Eng

No engine either, so I am not Orville Wright.

Eng

 

[MIflyer]

On my Ercoupe if you open the pilot's side window it gets kinda windy, but usually you are in the pattern, coming down to land, and not going very fast. Now, if you open both side windows you can be sure that any loose items in the cockpit will be quickly disposed of, including the Airworthiness Certificate that by FAA Regulation must be available for easy viewing.

In aircraft that had a back-seater, when the pilot had his canopy open, did the wind blow through to the back seat guy

Note that for the wind to come in it must have a place to go out, and the back seat of a T-6 does not have a place for the airflow unless the rear cockpit is open, too. And you can get some unexpected effects. For example, in pickup trucks, if you have a sliding rear window that looks out onto the bed, and you have both it and a side window open, the wind comes in from THE BACK and goes out the side window, while you would expect the reverse. In airplanes the area over the wings is a low pressure area. In my Ercoupe there is airflow that comes in through the openings around the tail and comes forward and goes out past the seats and out the open canopy. I usually fly with the side windows open a few inches at the top and the airflow is OUT through that opening, not in from it. Some aircraft designs are carefully designed to have a nearly airtight bulkhead between the tail and the areas over the wings where the windows can be opened in order to prevent such airflow, which causes significant drag.

 

[special ed]

A friend, gone now, who flew Corsairs then Hellcats and flew various civil planes post war with a few crazy former mil fliers, told of a way to spot land a Luscome. Seems just before touchdown, pilot yells "now" and he and passenger open their doors together.

 

[MIflyer]

A friend, gone now, who flew Corsairs then Hellcats and flew various civil planes post war with a few crazy former mil fliers, told of a way to spot land a Luscome. Seems just before touchdown, pilot yells "now" and he and passenger open their doors together.

A friend of mine who owned a Luscombe said that after you landed it, parked it, and tied it down, you walked away then then turned around to make sure it was not sneaking up on you.

Ercoupes can be steered by having the pilot or passenger stick his hand out on the side where you want to turn. First time I tried that I was doing 104 MPH and it took me a while before I got feeling again in my Left arm after having it slammed against the side of the fuselage. It seems you only have to reach don and touch the wing to induce a turn, not stick it out like you were signaling a Left hand turn in a car.

 

[Capt. Vick]

Great stuff guys!

 

[Antarctica]

TigerMoth .. definitely !

To test an instrument, a Tech Chief had to test-taxi an EE Lightning without a canopy up to just below take-off speed ... he over did it & accidentally engaged afterburner. His clipboard was on the dash the whole flight (he was talked down safely) - he was amazed that the papers didn't even rustle. That was his second solo of his life.

 

[MIflyer]

You wonder how in the world the waist gunners in B-17's and B-24's could have endured the wind or waved their .50 cal around despite the forces. but it must not have been that bad. But it seems that on the B-25 the waist gun positions had windows over them.

 

[Engineman]

The Panavia Tornado was flown with the canopy and rear bang seat removed for a handling and survivability trial.
As I recall, the general front cockpit environment was reasonable upto about 300 KIAS, but got rougher above that speed. I think kinetic compression heating was noticable above about 400 KIAS and got uncomfortable above 500 KIAS. I think the max speed used was about 600 KIAS in this trial.
Apparently, with no Nav, Wind was not a problem.

Eng

 

[Maxrobot1]

You wonder how in the world the waist gunners in B-17's and B-24's could have endured the wind or waved their .50 cal around despite the forces. but it must not have been that bad. But it seems that on the B-25 the waist gun positions had windows over them.

B-24s at least had wind spoilers ahead of the waist positions.

 

[Maxrobot1]

I remember reading that the Grumman A-6 Intruder was the last U.S. Navy carrier aircraft that could be flown with the canopy open. However, any loose papers would be swirled around!