davebender
1st Lieutenant
Back in the days when Britain was a French colony. 
What made you decide to break free from your French masters?
What made you decide to break free from your French masters?
Communications between Allies with different languages
- Thread starter Jenisch
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Shortround6
Major General
Their insistence on drinking wine instead of good beer/ale and whiskey
davebender
1st Lieutenant
I wonder what the USA would look like if the original 13 colonies had been French rather then English?
pbfoot
1st Lieutenant
It would look like Canada where we had the chance for US technology, British Government and French culture but ended up with US culture, British technology and French Gov't
Norman french became absorbed into what became Middle English. Apple is from the old Anglo-Saxon word for fruit,not a specific fruit. It became specific when we adopted the French word fruit as the collective noun. It's why English has nearly twice as many words as most Latin languages,typically a ratio of about 5:3.
We can "smuggle" (a word that our Scandinavian friends will recognise) "contreband" (a word that people speaking Latin languages will recognise).
Latin was of course the language of the Western church,but also the written language of the elite and the language of international diplomacy. It would remain so for a very long time. Middle English was eventually superceded by Early Modern English,a sort of London/SE based estuary dialect whose spread was much aided by the introduction of the printing press to England. Caxton was supposedly a man of Kent.
Cheers
Steve
davebender
1st Lieutenant
I've spent a fair amount of time in Canada and Britain. IMO our culture is essentially the same.
How did the British end up driving on the wrong side of the road?
How did the British end up driving on the wrong side of the road?
I've spent a fair amount of time in Canada and Britain. IMO our culture is essentially the same.
How did the British end up driving on the wrong side of the road?
Of course it is. The same language and religion and most importantly law based on the same principles.
I think you will find that it is we that drive on the correct side of the road
Steve
davebender
1st Lieutenant
Even the French know which side of the road to drive on.
Edgar Brooks
Senior Airman
Napoleon can attest to the fact that we never obey the French; one of them demanded, recently, that Waterloo Station should be renamed, and the favourite choice was Agincourt.Even the French know which side of the road to drive on.
Our armies marched on the left side of the road (gives your sword-arm room for manouevre,) while the French marched on the right. When the armies met, you had instant road-rage, and the punch-up started.
Francis marliere
Airman
- 72
- Aug 9, 2004
From XIth to XVth centuries, 'British' aristocracy spoke French and was of 'French culture'. The kings of England owned large part of France (Normandie, Aquitaine, Anjou, etc.) and many of them - including Richard I - spent very little time in England. Things changed after the 100 years war. British aristocracy began to speak English and developp a specific English culture.
Absolutely true.
However within 100 years of the invasion the Norman invaders had started to "go native". This is reflected in the language of the people in which Norman French was assimilated into the Anglo-Saxon language giving us Middle English,the language of Chaucer. The high aristocracy still spoke Norman French. Richard I famously could not speak the language of his English subjects.
England's three lions passant trace their origins back to Aquitaine and less directly to Normandy. I wonder how many jingoistic football (soccer) fans know that!
Cheers
Steve
Edgar Brooks
Senior Airman
For anyone with a genuine interest in the history of English, I recommend "The Adventure of English," by Melvyn Bragg; it's actually very readable, even entertaining in places. He maintains that English has survived by basically being a thief, and pinching words from other languages, then making them its own. He also says that it was the Black Death which ensured the language survived, since all of the educated types, like monks, were either killed, due to living in close proximity to each other, or ran away. This left only native English-speakers available for court duties, etc., so the language continued.
I don't know whether the black death saved the language or not. It was spoken by the aristocracy by the end of the XIVth century,fifty years after that dreadful plague so maybe Bragg has a point. A little later in 1415 Henry V made a series of speeches (not the one heroic Shakespearian one) as he rode along his lines before Agincourt. He must have spoken English to his yeoman archers as they certainly didn't speak Latin or French.
Cheers
Steve
Cheers
Steve
Source? In WWII, I don't think that was usually the case. AFAIK the Italo-Germans in the Med/NA theater relied on interpreters and limited numbers of well educated officers on each side who spoke a common language. It might have been French in some individual cases, but in general German or Italian. For example Rommel spoke some Italian, and Ramcke was good at it, but in general even high ranking German and Italian officers needed interpreters to communicate with one another. So IOW the rank and file of German and Italian soldiers or even pilots often couldn't communicate directly, a problem for their side.
After Italy's surrender Italian air units of Mussolini's rump Italian Social Republic fought under German control and I'd guess their airmen had to learn basic German, and likewise for Eastern European Axis AF's in 1944 period of closely coordinated air operations with the Luftwaffe. But the general answer AFAIK as to how the various Axis air forces communicated was: not well.
BTW below the level of sophistication of pilots, among ordinary soldiers, a lot of Italians in the WWII era still didn't speak standard Italian, but rather dialects, and could potentially have trouble understanding people from other parts of Italy, let alone Germans. The Germans had (and have) regional variations in speech but to a lesser degree.
Joe
As do many European countries. I have friends from Hamburg who pretend not to be able to understand a Bavarian accent,much as I might have difficulty with a Geordie (North Eastern) English accent.
The reality today is that everyone can moderate their accents and dialects to ease understanding,at least until they've had a few too many. Just as the printing press tended to disseminate a standard written language,radio (wireless in the 1930s) disseminated a standard spoken version of a language. This process was well underway by the time of WWII.
Cheers
Steve
davebender
1st Lieutenant
Rommel spent a lot of time kicking Italian butt during WWI. He earned his Pour le Mérite at the Battle of Karfreit. Not sure how he found time to learn the language.
common italian GI was illiterate or with few school so they don't spocke foreign language if not for occasional reason (like previous emigration, live near foreign state...) maybe a few of latin at best. all high school graduates were compelled to become official. i think that french was most common language in high school at time.
fastmongrel
1st Sergeant
When I was in the BAOR (British Army On the Rhine) It was embarrassing that so many of our Bundeswehr colleagues spoke perfect or understandable English. Hardly any of us got much further in German than Zwei große Bier bitte or Wo sind die essen. To be honest we sometimes had a lot more trouble communicating with our colonial brethren.
