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There are much better looking and performing Japanese aircraft than the navy's Zero.But a dead nuts reliable liquid cooled, smooth as butter V12 surely is worth a look as replacement for a such a noble aircraft as the Mitsubishi Zero. I think it would have been a really beautiful if spartan looking plane. That's my delusion...
Per Wikipedia The Nakajima Sakae...
And the Merlin 61 (why can't Wikipedia set a standard order of UOMs?)
- Length: 1,600 mm (63 in)
- Diameter: 1,150 mm (45 in)
- Dry weight: 590 kg (1,300 lb)
The Merlin is considerably heavier and longer than the Zero's Merlin. That's a lot of weight placed much further forward of the engine mounts and centre of gravity. I think the handling and the Zero's delicate structure would be badly impacted. And where to place the radiators and coolant lines?
- Length: 88.7 in (225 cm)
- Width: 30.8 in (78 cm)
- Height: 40 in (102 cm)
- Dry weight: 1,640 lb (744 kg)
Why do you think this?I just think that the Mitsubishi Zero would have been an awesome looking and performing plane with a Rolls-Royce Merlin strapped to it.
I disagree. The USN and with the exception of the Fulmar/Firefly and Barracuda even the RN (when not forced to take inline aircraft from the RAF like the Nimrod, Seafire, etc) preferred air cooled radials. For naval service radials are better, less parts to carry, no coolant to manage, etc.A little liquid cooling added to the Japanese Navy would have done them some good.
I know, the whole idea on its surface sounds ridiculous, maybe deeper down as well. The A6M8 took the Zero to its max with the Kinsei engine at some 1500 hp. I suspect they were very small and short lived horses at that amount. Anyway, if true, it showed the airframe, at least that airframe, could handle over 1500 hp.
I know the Japanese made a couple of other terrific planes toward the end of the war, the Ki 100, the Ki 84, etc. But a dead nuts reliable liquid cooled, smooth as butter V12 surely is worth a look as replacement for a such a noble aircraft as the Mitsubishi Zero. Far better than being a transporter for a human bomb.
As for engine weight, I don't believe anybody. I've read the 2000 cubic inch DB 601 weighs less than the 1650 cubic inch Merlin. The difference in listed weight between the DB 605 and the Griffon is even worse. I think everybody weighed their engines in different states of dress and I don't think you can believe any of these weights.
I think it would have been a really beautiful if spartan looking plane. That's my delusion...
Come on guys, give me a break. The Merlin was a much better engine in every sense of the word "engine" than the under developed pumped up Japanese radials they were trying to cram into the last Japanese airframes at the end of the war. The only engines that they had that were reliable didn't put out any horsepower.
Some say that liquid cooling was a disadvantage because of vulnerability to battle damage. I believe I've read that you were just as likely that you were just as likely to come home in a liquid cooled plane as an air cooled one. As far as making horsepower, liquid cooling is superior. You can get more HP per cubic inch from an LC engine than an AC engine. That's just the nature of it.
As far as aesthetics of a Merlin powered Zero not being beautiful...cut it out! Next thing you'll be telling me is that my dog is ugly!
Sounds like you just want affirmation and confirmation. Okay, have your Merlin Zero.Come on guys, give me a break
Come on guys, give me a break. The Merlin was a much better engine in every sense of the word "engine" than the under developed pumped up Japanese radials they were trying to cram into the last Japanese airframes at the end of the war. The only engines that they had that were reliable didn't put out any horsepower.
Some say that liquid cooling was a disadvantage because of vulnerability to battle damage. I believe I've read that you were just as likely that you were just as likely to come home in a liquid cooled plane as an air cooled one. As far as making horsepower, liquid cooling is superior. You can get more HP per cubic inch from an LC engine than an AC engine. That's just the nature of it.
As far as aesthetics of a Merlin powered Zero not being beautiful...cut it out! Next thing you'll be telling me is that my dog is ugly!
That's a dog?
I know, the whole idea on its surface sounds ridiculous, maybe deeper down as well. The A6M8 took the Zero to its max with the Kinsei engine at some 1500 hp. I suspect they were very small and short lived horses at that amount. Anyway, if true, it showed the airframe, at least that airframe, could handle over 1500 hp.
I know the Japanese made a couple of other terrific planes toward the end of the war, the Ki 100, the Ki 84, etc. But a dead nuts reliable liquid cooled, smooth as butter V12 surely is worth a look as replacement for a such a noble aircraft as the Mitsubishi Zero. Far better than being a transporter for a human bomb.
As for engine weight, I don't believe anybody. I've read the 2000 cubic inch DB 601 weighs less than the 1650 cubic inch Merlin. The difference in listed weight between the DB 605 and the Griffon is even worse. I think everybody weighed their engines in different states of dress and I don't think you can believe any of these weights.
I think it would have been a really beautiful if spartan looking plane. That's my delusion...
Believe the weights. The engineers of the time weren't stupid. They designed the engines to stand up to the intended power, that is what helped govern the weight, not the displacement. You can build a light weight large displacement slow turning engine or a similar weight higher rpm smaller displacement engine. See Hispano 12Y engine, displacement of a Griffon, weight less than a Merlin, Power was limited by both the 2400-2500 rpm limit imposed by the crankshaft and the weak construction of the rest of the engine. Russians made the bore 2mm smaller in an attempt to strengthen the cylinder walls....
Fuel is also important, without better than 87 octane fuel the Merlin was going to be limited in power because at much past 6lbs of boost it would run into detonation.
Same for the German engines. The German engines were light weight for their displacement because they knew they would never run the same pressures in the cylinders that the Merlin was going to run and they ran slower.
AN early DB 601 ran at about 80% of the rpm of the early Merlin (the Merlin never changed rpm). It didn't need (or get) the same level of counterweights on the crankshaft. The con rods and Pistons didn't need to be as strong as the Merlins.
The Japanese never got much passed 92 octane fuel (although that is lean rating and Japanese fuel was never rated at rich mixture) so the "dream" of a Zero using a Merlin hits a real snag right at the start.
I'm telling you...you can't believe Wikipedia or anyone else for these weights. I just don't believe that the 1700 cubic inch Sakae engine weighed only weighed 1300 pounds and the 1650 cubic inch Merlin weighed in at 350 pounds heavier. Something is just not being taken into account. It's true the Merlin is a $hit load longer so you'd likely have to stretch the fuselage a bit behind the cockpit, like they did with the P36 when they turned it in to the P40. But they did it and while the P36 wasn't a bad looking plane, but the P40 was a great looking plane.
I just think that the Mitsubishi Zero would have been an awesome looking and performing plane with a Rolls-Royce Merlin strapped to it. A little liquid cooling added to the Japanese Navy would have done them some good.