Curtiss-Wright: Loss of Don Berlin and downfall

[wuzak]

Given that RR leaned toward the "craftsman" approach

Not that again?

 

[Shortround6]

I think it is Vees for Victory that says that the RAF experience was that the V-1710 lasted longer than Merlins. But while it was clear that the V-1710 theoretically was much better for field maintenance than the Merlin, being "modular" with a removable accessory section and removable reduction gear section, I've never seen any praise from the Brits for that. Given that RR leaned toward the "craftsman" approach maybe they did not do much in the field but swap engines, anyway.

Original statement was " Now throw in that much of the British early P-40 use was in the dessert and engine life (anybody's) wasn't that good anyway?" which was a quick way of saying Hawk 81/Tomahawk. The Hawk 87/Kittyhawks started delivery in Aug 1941 and all of the Kittyhawk MK I and IA's were delivered by Mid 1942. First Kittyhawks showed up in Egypt in Oct, 1941 and went into action on Jan 1st 1942. I am not sure that any front line squadrons changed gear sections or accessory sections of the Allison engines, either British or American.
The -39 engines of the Hawk 87s had all the improvements that had been worked out on the -33 engines and at some point in early 1942 they started getting the improved nitrided crankshafts, at some point in the spring of 1942 (?) they also got the Antioch process engine blocks which were stronger than the early blocks. (see page 409 of Vee's for Victory).
Experience with the two engines could vary depending on the time we are talking about. The early Hurricane Is in the mid-east did not have sand filters (at least originally ?).

I wonder why the RAF even sent Hawk 81A's to the Western Desert. It is true that the RAF pilots in the Med were disgusted at getting nothing but Hurricanes for so long, with the Spitfires kept back home for the really important work.

The RAF sent Hawk 81s to North Africa because they didn't want to use them in England.
Curtiss built 1,183 (?) export Hawk 81s and delivered (at the factory ramp) them between Sept 18th and August 21st 1941.
The RAF acknowledged that the Tomahawk was better than the Hurricane MK I at low altitudes, except for firepower.
The British, in 1941, and an awful lot of trouble getting the .50in guns to work and in mid 1941 figured that the four .303 guns was the armament they could rely on in combat.

The Tomahawk was about equal or better in climb to 20,000ft to the Hurricane I although not as good higher up. The Tomahawk was about 30mph faster at 13,000ft and 20mph faster at 18,000ft.
Against the Italian fighters of 1941 the Tomahawks should do just fine. The MC 202 did not show up in Libya Nov 1941. Germans were using a lot of 109Es in NA early on and nobody was flying at the altitudes they were using in NW Europe in the Spring of 1941.

The Tomahawks had some differences to British planes like no throttle friction device and no boost limiter which made them harder to fly especially with large/frequent changes in altitude.

Had the British sorted out the problems with the .50 cal guns sooner they may have used them more in Europe in 1941.

 

[MIflyer]

The Tomahawks had some differences to British planes like no throttle friction device and no boost limiter

There was a Flypast article I wish I had saved. They found some Tomahawks in the U.K. at a rather late date and decided to assemble them and use them to train bomber gunners. First one off, the pilot shoved the throttle all the way in and went roaring off, until, "POW!" He'd blown the engine due to overboosting.

 

[Shortround6]

There was a Flypast article I wish I had saved. They found some Tomahawks in the U.K. at a rather late date and decided to assemble them and use them to train bomber gunners. First one off, the pilot shoved the throttle all the way in and went roaring off, until, "POW!" He'd blown the engine due to overboosting.

But, but , but, we are told the Allison engine would routinely fly at 70inches for 20 minutes at a time

Maybe training aircraft didn't get the good gas

 

[MIflyer]

When the PI was attacked by the Japanese one pilot got his P-40E off the ground with the bombers overhead and was frantically trying to gain airspeed and altitude. Then he looked at the manifold pressure gauge and his heart sank; it was reading less than 10 inches. Clearly his engine was seriously malfunctioning and his survival was very much in doubt. But he did not give up and as he persisted and gained altitude gradually realized that the gauge needle had gone all the way around past its upper limit and had started another trip around the dial. Of course that was an F series rather than a C series engine.

 

[Reluctant Poster]

Yes, but to get that far they had to start planning at least a year earlier.

There is no reason to speculate when the actual timeline is available. As you can see the award to Packard was very much a last minute affair.