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Page 129 or Hermann's book on the Ta 152H specifically states that the Jumo 213E had a two stage 3 speed supercharger. I suppose there is the possibility that this consisted of a single speed first stage that could be declutched combined with a two speed second stage but that sounds like a complicated arrangement. It was used on the PW R2800 Corsair/Hellcat engines.
Given the figures on the chart, it seems like that 3rd speed is a bit beyond the really useful performance (and efficiency range) particularly given the high critical altitude. (that or lowing all 3 speeds, but it's the high gear that seems problematic) Targeting the 3rd stage crit alt 1-2km lower seems like it'd make a lot more sense while still giving a smoother power curve than the contemporary 2-stage Merlin series. Granted, the same shift occurred between the V-1650-3 and -7, except A. the -3 still wasn't tuned quite as high as the 213 appears to be here, and B. the 3 speeds means it could better compromise and avoid the larger altitude performance gap between the -3 and 7. (ie more like if the Merlin could be arranged to use the -7's MS gear as low, middle gear between the -7's FS and 3's MS gear range, and high gear similar to the -3's FS gear)
Are you sure the second stage was always active? Your comment sounds like it was. Then it would require a higher gear to get high alt charging.
I'm a bit suspicious about this but I don't have exact sources about this system.
Given the figures on the chart, it seems like that 3rd speed is a bit beyond the really useful performance (and efficiency range) particularly given the high critical altitude. ...
Or in short, just optimized so high gear was in the ~8 km range rather than over 9.5km.
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Post edit, given Tommo's picture its clear it used a single combined shaft for both impellors. The second impellor looks most unusual.
Looking at that diagram, it also appears the impellers for the 2 stages were identical or nearly identical in diameter, but the first stage used a taller/broader pitch for the blades/vanes of the impeller. (so larger area and should be getting higher mass flow)The second impeller looks like the carbon copy of the DVL-designed impeller, used on Jumo 211F and subsequent.
I believe that would actually be the variable inlet guide vanes used in leu of butterfly type throttle plates. (I thought it was an impeller too, the first time I saw it, but this feature was discussed in a few other threads and also explains the smooth power curves for each of the speeds -the swirl inlet was much more aerodynamically efficient than simple butterfly valves)Technically it might even be 3 stages, note the axial flow fan in front of the two centrifugal stages. This probably functioned in a similar manner to the inductor fan in front of Heinkel Jet engines providing a low level of compression to smooth the airflow. In other words high volume low pressure.
I thought so too, at a glance, but looking closer, I think that first stage impeller is fully shrouded as well (the shroud projecting out of the cut-away casing/bell housing)The first stage of the centrifugal compressor looks unshrouded, the second stage seems to have integral shrouding on the impellor.
I was thinking more in line with what was done on the DB-601 early war but applied to the prop controls rather than the supercharger. I suppose the variable speed supercharger control unit itself would increase failure rates and maintenance (and obviously manufacturing cost, complexity, and weight). Let alone the engine computer BMW introduced on the 801. (Bramo had previously used single-lever systems on the 323 -and I assume developed them for the 329- so there was a good degree of background work there already)The more "automatic" controls you put on an engine the easier a pilots job is (and the harder the maintenance personnel have to work). You also have Murphy's law
Right, prop pitch control is a bit like gearing in an auto transmission (and constant speed props are a bit like using a torque converter in an automatic transmission while 2-pitch propers would be akin to a very coarse 2-speed manual transmission). I overlooked that issue, so the 2400 RPM case would likely only be useful at high airspeeds.AS far as plying games with propellers on take-off, you might want to think about that very carefully. The whole idea of the "constant" speed propeller or variable pitch was to use the optimum pitch of the blades for each flight condition. For take-off you want a shallow pitch even if high rpm to move the the maximum amount of air. Reducing rpm and increasing pitch in an attempt to use the same engine power results in a steep pitch on the blades. Cutting the rpm to 2400rpm is a 20% reduction in prop rpm and you are going to need a steeper pitch. trouble is at slow speed the angle of attack of the blades would be wrong and the blades are part stalling and part thrashing the air instead of producing thrust.
Effectively manually leaning out the mixture to effectively improve maximum range and endurance proved true in the Pacific after Lindberg shared his experience with USAAF pilots. (this was at least true in the Pacific, I'm not sure if the same techniques were applied in the ETO)Obviously allied aircraft improved their controls but it seems only slowly. Supposedly allied pilots thought the could do better in setting up their engines for lean cruise or in precise control in formation flying but I suspect this is a case of boosting their own moral.
The engine critical altitude was around 16250 right? If that's right then the engine got 2750-3750' of altitude from ram compression. That's actually pretty good for the time.It would't matter how many gears you used on a Merlin XX/45 supercharger (they were the same for all practical purposes) the inlet/impeller/housing was pretty much maxed out at around 19-20,000ft. (with RAM)
While this might be a slight detour from topic, it's something that I've often been curious about: For propellers and superchargers, it was considered a no-no to have the airflow be supersonic. Then you'd see gas-turbines have tip-velocities that would be supersonic, and root-to-tip conditions at cruise speed, and it supposedly generated superior pressure-ratios than subsonic designs offered.You can only drive a single stage impeller so fast before the tip speed exceeds the speed of sound in the conditions inside the supercharger (temperature and pressure) and starts up shock waves that interfere with the airflow.
I didn't know there were any two-stage turbochargers developed in the war that saw operational use. From what I remember, most turbocharged engine designs had one stage of supercharging and one of turbocharging.Forgive me for going a bit off topic, but how do (multiple) turbochargers compare to a 3 speed supercharger (thinking BMW 802 vs BMW P.8011?
Well, not exactly: The main-stage blower only had one speed, and the neutral stage simply had the auxiliary stage unclutched (it didn't spin), with low and high being different speeds.Surely the R-1830 and R-2800 had 3 speed superchargers? LO, HI and Neutral.
I never knew any 9.6's were ever used in the war. I knew the Mustang Mk.II was faster than the Mk.I/IA, but I thought it was due to a change in the radiator design.The Mustang Mk.I/IA did use 8.8:1 supercharged engines (and the Mk.II of course used 9.6) so my previous comments at least still apply there.
By "multi-speed" I meant more than one speed, not necessarily three-speed.
Well, not exactly: The main-stage blower only had one speed, and the neutral stage simply had the auxiliary stage unclutched (it didn't spin), with low and high being different speeds.
Which production block of Allisons went to the PT boats, and when did they siphon off those engines to go to the boats? I wonder how much that effected the need for the Merlins to go into P-40s and Mustang B's. Did the US Navy need enough to alter the plans for those aircraft?
That's just a thought, as the Allisons weren't just for aircraft after all.