external difference between leo 451 and leo 452?

[aurelien wolff]

Hello, I'm taking multiple heller musee lioré et olivier 451 for easter and I thought I'd do derivatives with the normal leo 451, I want to do variant that don't recquire much external modification on the base kit and I think the 452 with GR 14 N38 would be a good candidate, but I'm not sure if this variant is externally different from the basic 451 or not and if the differences between the GR 14N38 and 48/49 would be visible.
Thanks for your answers!

 

[Wurger]

"One pre-production LeO 452 was ordered in May 1937, but tests with the prototype revealed overheating problems with the Hispano-Suiza engines. The prototype was re-engined with Gnome-Rhone radial engines, and in the summer of 1938, after successful tests with the new engines, all existing production orders were changed to ones for the Gnome-Rhone powered LeO 451."

Also you may have a look at ... 1:72 Lioré & Olivier LeO 451

 

[aurelien wolff]

I know the variant from this good rfench book (it has some legend issues but beside that, it's verry good)

I'm planning to do one of them "from the box" without any correction and the other (leo 452) will be corrected. Still not sure ont he external difference between the engine tho, google pic doesn't seem to like precise stuff.

 

[Wurger]

I would suggest studding these book as well ...

 

[Wurger]

Regarding the engines and the different appearance

The LeO45 prototype with the Hispano-Suiza 14AA engines had the cowling more opened at the front. However soon she was fitted with the new Mercier-designed cowling that was more stream-lined although the engines were still the HS ones. See the shots below.
However the power units were also replaced with the Gnome Rhone quickly. But the Mercier engine cowling stayed the same and became the standard one, IMHO.

Initial NACA engine cowling type ...

Mercier engine cowling type ...

the pic source: the net.

 

[aurelien wolff]

so the differences between engine wouldn't be visible with the mercier cowling

 

[wlewisiii]

What a beautiful aircraft. My knowledge of French airpower is, unfortunately, very limited so it's fun to learn about this model.

(looks in the wiki) Decent performance, good number made and in service till quite late.

Thanks!

 

[Wurger]

so the differences between engine wouldn't be visible with the mercier cowling

Perhaps W waroff or le_steph40 could shed more light on. But yes, the differences in the appearance shouldn't be noticed, IMHO.
Actually both engines looked very similar and had almost the same dimensions.

The H-S AA engine ...

The G-R N engine ...

 

[CATCH 22]

Hello, I'm taking multiple heller musee lioré et olivier 451 for easter and I thought I'd do derivatives with the normal leo 451, I want to do variant that don't recquire much external modification on the base kit and I think the 452 with GR 14 N38 would be a good candidate, but I'm not sure if this variant is externally different from the basic 451 or not and if the differences between the GR 14N38 and 48/49 would be visible.
Thanks for your answers!

Hi Aurelien!
I'm building the same model at the moment and as per my sources no LeO 452 was built. You might find some other information too

Above quote is from Docavia 23.
Try to check some of the books already mentioned above with in dept descriptions of the technical evolution of this airplane. The idea for Leo 452 was to motorize this variant with Hispano-Suiza 14AA-12/13 (probably with the NACA cowling, which differs from the Mercier-one).

Gnome-Rhone 14N 38/39 and 14N 48/49 have been both used during the production of LeO 451.
Your chance for different motorized LeOs is to build 451, 453 and 455 which were manufactured during and after WWII, but you'll need different cowlings and engines.
Another choice is to build the prototype LeO 45-01 with all different engines and cowlings - again more changes to be done.
If you want to have 2 different looking LeOs but strictly OOB you can build an early one (1939-1940) from the Battle of France period and a late one (1941-1943) from the Vichy period. They will have the same engines and cowlings but different tails, armament and appearance (camouflage).
Cheers!

 

[aurelien wolff]

so no leo 452 prototype, but it seem the gnome rhone was considered for this variant. The caraktère book doesn't say a prototype got build for this variant. I think of doing one based on the prototype with the considered weaponery if it was the same as the serial production aircraft, and a leo 452 with the hispona suiza engine(or gnome rhone, are we sure the hspano suiza would have a different cowling?) and a third one using the new edition Liore & Olivier 45 "Heller Museum (80398) en 1:72 - Heller Can I do a 451M from the heller kit?

 

[CATCH 22]

so no leo 452 prototype, but it seem the gnome rhone was considered for this variant. The caraktère book doesn't say a prototype got build for this variant. I think of doing one based on the prototype with the considered weaponery if it was the same as the serial production aircraft, and a leo 452 with the hispona suiza engine(or gnome rhone, are we sure the hspano suiza would have a different cowling?) and a third one using the new edition Liore & Olivier 45 "Heller Museum (80398) en 1:72 - Heller Can I do a 451M from the heller kit?

Hi Aurelien,
check your pm - I hope you'll get a better overview how many variants of LeO 45 have been manufactured.
LeO 451M is the designation for LeO 451 ordered by the Navy and yes, you can build it OOB - one (or more) of the Heller kits has decals for such an option.
Cheers!

 

[aurelien wolff]

Thanks for the docs, they correspond to what caraktère is saying in their books (the only issue being some faulty legendon a luftwaffe leo 451 profile and the caracteristic of the bloch 210 in place of the one from the leo 451), comparing their drawing to the one from docavia, they look the same so I think they used the book as a source.