F4U belly window

[Hoggardhigh]

Hi all,

It is known that early F4U-1 Corsairs had a small window under the belly, which was deleted in the later F4U-1A and -1D models.

Does anyone have any specific details about this modification, i.e. the deletion of the window from F4U-1A/-1D production?

Thanks

 

[Dana Bell]

Hi Hoggardhigh,

The bombing window was replaced by an access hatch on the 2,531st F4U-1A (BuNo 500066) and the 901st FG-1A (BuNo 13892). I've never been able to find a record of when/if Brewster made the change.

The window wasn't a big problem (though, at the time, every ounce of wasted weight was being removed from the Corsair). But the hatch allowed better access to the lower cockpit without having to remove the seat or armor plate. Unfortunately, with the engine exhaust running along the lower fuselage, the hatch also drew carbon monoxide into the cockpit. I haven't seen an order to fix the problem, but I suspect a sealant was added along the hatch edges (as it was aft of the radio bulkhead).

Cheers,


Dana

 

[Hoggardhigh]

Hi Hoggardhigh,

The bombing window was replaced by an access hatch on the 2,531st F4U-1A (BuNo 500066) and the 901st FG-1A (BuNo 13892). I've never been able to find a record of when/if Brewster made the change.

Anybody have any images to illustrate this modification?

 

[Wurger]

Judging by the drawings the glass of the window and its the frame were replaced just with a plate of the same dimensions.

 

[Hoggardhigh]

Judging by the drawings the glass of the window and its the frame were replaced just with a plate of the same dimensions.

View attachment 526326

Where did you get those drawings?

 

[Hoggardhigh]

In the above photo, taken in September 1944, you can see that the belly window seems to have been replaced with sheet metal, but the panel lines for the window are still present.

Does anyone know if this particular modification was incorporated into production?

 

[Wurger]

Where did you get those drawings?

I got them from the Internet some time ago. But I would say these were scanned from a Kagero book for the Corsair.But the window panel is of wrong shape IMHO.

In the above photo, taken in September 1944, you can see that the belly window seems to have been replaced with sheet metal, but the panel lines for the window are still present.

Looking at your pic here I got an impression that's the window still there but the glass was overpainted only. IMHO it doesn't look like a modification made in a factory. So it would be correct according to the info from Detail & Scale vol 1

"F4U-1s had a window in the lower fuselage, but it was rectangular in shape rather than being oval shaped like the one on the prototype. This window was on some early f4U-1A's as well, but it was deleted during production of that variant. The windows were painted over on some aircraft ( maybe why its tended to remain an obscure detail), and they were not considered useful ( Vought)"

the pic source: the Internet.

the pic source: Aircraft Pictorial #7 F4U-1 Corsair Vol.1 by Dana Bell Classic Warships Publishing Book Review by Steven Eisenman

 

[Wurger]

Here is restored Chance Vought F4U-1A Corsair Bu.17995 More info and pic here: Antrvm Ratvs - Walkaround - Chance Vought F4U-1A Corsair Bu.17995

 

[Dana Bell]

Hi All!

Hey Wurger -- where on the internet did you find that drawing of the window? That's my drawing (meaning I drew it) from my first Corsair book (page 21). I don't mind if I share my stuff, but it looks like someone out there has decided to share it for me! (Don't take down your posting - it works here - and I'm not blaming you, but I would like to know what else someone's posting from those books!

HoggardHigh -- that photo is 80-G-280710 from the National Archives, taken on Guadalcanal. Because the racks are non-standard, it's usually described as an F4U-1A that was field-modified to -1D standards (though the caption makes no mention of this). If that is a field mod, there's no telling what else was done to the bombing window. I've always thought I was seeing enough reflection through the dust and dirt to think the window was still in place, but my 600dpi scan of that image isn't clear enough to explain either way.

There's also the story that some units painted over the bombing window - it's possible, but I've no idea why anyone would do that - having a view through the window wasn't a problem, it was the weight that mattered, and a coat of paint wouldn't have fixed that.

Cheers,



Dana

 

[Wurger]

Oh I'm very sorry I haven't credited that propely, Dana. Also I thank you for your indulgence. But please tell me which one drawing, the one in the post #4 or in the #7?

I guess it's the #7. If it is it can be found there. .. http://www.hyperscale.com/2014/reviews/books/f4u1vol1bellbookreviewse_1.htm

 

[Dana Bell]

Hi Wurger,

Many thanks - that's a relief! I remember that page was in the review. All is well....

Cheers,



Dana

 

[Wurger]

Again I'm sorry and THX.

 

[Dana Bell]

Not a worry Wurger,

I've seen you on this site many times - you are one of the many good guys!

Cheers,



Dana

 

[fubar57]

We like him

 

[Crimea_River]

Well........

 

[Hoggardhigh]

Unfortunately, with the engine exhaust running along the lower fuselage, the hatch also drew carbon monoxide into the cockpit.

How do you know about this?

 

[Dana Bell]

Hi Hoggardhigh,

Before I wrote my two small books on the early Corsairs I spent two years digging through the contract and BuAer correspondence files at the National Archives in College Park. CO was a major issue, and one of the reasons the flare pistol port was sealed beside the pilot's right hip and the reason the aft fuselage vents were added late in production. The Corsair had a number of issues that required minor fixes, most of which are visible in the photos once you know they're there. Unfortunately, I've never found the fix for fumes entering through the ventral cockpit hatch.

Cheers,


Dana

 

[Hoggardhigh]

Hi Hoggardhigh,

Before I wrote my two small books on the early Corsairs I spent two years digging through the contract and BuAer correspondence files at the National Archives in College Park. CO was a major issue, and one of the reasons the flare pistol port was sealed beside the pilot's right hip and the reason the aft fuselage vents were added late in production. The Corsair had a number of issues that required minor fixes, most of which are visible in the photos once you know they're there. Unfortunately, I've never found the fix for fumes entering through the ventral cockpit hatch.

Cheers,


Dana

Do you know when the fuselage vents were added during F4U production? And do you have any pictures/drawings/etc. which illustrate this modification? (As for the sealed flare pistol port, I'd like to see an illustration of that too.)

 

[Dana Bell]

Hi Hoggardhigh,

The fuselage vents were added to US aircraft in 1945 after F4U-1 and F3A production had ended; it was introduced on the Goodyear line with #3602 BuNo 92341, and retrofitted to earlier aircraft with a Vought-produced kit.

The flare pistol was never carried on Birdcage Corsairs (sorry Tamiya). It first appeared on F4U BuNo 50040, F3A BuNo 08649, and FG BuNo 14377, and began causing problems almost immediately. The exterior port was covered with doped fabric which was not fume-proof, while the interior opening of the firing tube wasn't sealed at all - it just had the pistol locked in place. In May 1944 BuAer ordered the firing tube to be permanently blocked with a wooden plug inside the cockpit; the pistol was kept in a holster to be fired through the open canopy. (Sorry, no pix). In February 1945 BuAer ordered the tubes and brackets to be removed in the field (a weight-saving measure) and deleted from production lines. Since the FG-1D was the only -1 variant still in production, BuNo 87865 was the first delivered without provisions for the flare gun tube.

As a note, I don't have time to write many books and I'm not getting any younger. That forces me to write only those books that I feel would benefit from new research - after a quuick review of the archival records it was clear that the Corsair needed that sort of review, so much so that we had to split the material into two small volumes. As you're clearly interested in the Corsair, let me recommend you borrow copies from a friend - I promise you'll see things there that have never appeared in print anywhere else.

Cheers,



Dana

 

[mjfur]