Fastest Italian aircraft of WW2?

Admiral Beez · Jul 10, 2020

What was (or could have been) the fastest manned Italian aircraft of WW2?

For example, the prototype FIAT G.56 reached 426 mph. The Reggiane Re.2006 was expected to exceed 450 mph, but never flew. Would the Piaggio P.119 or Caproni Vizzola F.6Z be a contender?

I imagine the IMAM Ro.57 with a pair of Daimler-Benz DB 603 would have been a rocket.

GrauGeist · Jul 10, 2020

The Savoia-Marchetti SM.91 was pretty fast and bears a striking resemblance to a certain U.S. type.
The SM.92 was even faster.

tomo pauk · Jul 11, 2020

Prototypes or in-service models?

Snautzer01 · Jul 11, 2020

GrauGeist said:
The Savoia-Marchetti SM.91 was pretty fast and bears a striking resemblance to a certain U.S. type.
The SM.92 was even faster.

Funnely enough its nickname was Diavolo dalla coda biforcuta according to Caiden.

Vincenzo · Jul 11, 2020

Macchi C.205V (for service models)
probably Fiat G.56 for prototypes

GregP · Jul 11, 2020

Everything I have ever read about late WWII Italian fighters says they flew very well and handled even better, but were not easy to build and not many were ever made. It seems to me that they had no trouble coming up with competitive designs but had almost no chance of ever enough late-model aircraft to make much a difference. I like the S.M.91 and 92, but they had populations of 1. One-off prototypes are a favorite subject of mine.

Another one is the Finnish VL Pyörremyrsky ... a very good airplane that only existed in a single prototype shown below. Very Bf 109-ish but with the main gear moved to eliminate the narrow track and a much better canopy while including a retractable tail wheel. Note it has rudder trim, too, unlike the Bf 109. Impressive, but all by itself. This aircraft still exists in a Finnish museum. Likewise, the Italians also have some of their rare aircraft in museums so we can see them.

Snautzer01 · Jul 11, 2020

GregP said:
Everything I have ever read about late WWII Italian fighters says they flew very well and handled even better, but were not easy to build and not many were ever made. It seems to me that they had no trouble coming up with competitive designs but had almost no chance of ever enough late-model aircraft to make much a difference. I like the S.M.91 and 92, but they had populations of 1. One-off prototypes are a favorite subject of mine.

Another one is the Finnish VL Pyörremyrsky ... a very good airplane that only existed in a single prototype shown below. Very Bf 109-ish but with the main gear moved to eliminate the narrow track and a much better canopy while including a retractable tail wheel. Note it has rudder trim, too, unlike the Bf 109. Impressive, but all by itself. This aircraft still exists in a Finnish museum. Likewise, the Italians also have some of their rare aircraft in museums so we can see them.

View attachment 587778

Pretty, looks like a love child from a romantic very hot night between a Spit and a 109

Admiral Beez · Jul 11, 2020

GregP said:
Everything I have ever read about late WWII Italian fighters says they flew very well and handled even better, but were not easy to build and not many were ever made. It seems to me that they had no trouble coming up with competitive designs but had almost no chance of ever enough late-model aircraft to make much a difference. I like the S.M.91 and 92, but they had populations of 1. One-off prototypes are a favorite subject of mine.

Another one is the Finnish VL Pyörremyrsky ... a very good airplane that only existed in a single prototype shown below. Very Bf 109-ish but with the main gear moved to eliminate the narrow track and a much better canopy while including a retractable tail wheel. Note it has rudder trim, too, unlike the Bf 109. Impressive, but all by itself. This aircraft still exists in a Finnish museum. Likewise, the Italians also have some of their rare aircraft in museums so we can see them.

View attachment 587778

Definitely one of the prettiest single engine applications of the DB. Outside of the Italians, there's the Kawasaki Ki-61. It would be interesting to see who had the fastest DB 600 series powered single engined fighter.

GrauGeist · Jul 11, 2020

Admiral Beez said:
It would be interesting to see who had the fastest DB 600 series powered single engined fighter.

That distinction may go to the He100...

Denniss · Jul 11, 2020

I believe the Re.2005 was a tad faster than the Veltro due to slightly better aerodynamics.

Admiral Beez · Jul 11, 2020

Not sure of the accuracy here, but this is something....

https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/ww2-aircraft-ranked-by-speed-fighters.asp

SaparotRob · Jul 11, 2020

Admiral Beez said:
Not sure of the accuracy here, but this is something....

https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/ww2-aircraft-ranked-by-speed-fighters.asp

Okay, I'm not good at the technical stuff at all but the Me262 seems to be missing in my link. The Corsair was faster than the Meteor? I see why you included the caveat. The pictures are beautiful though!

GregP · Jul 11, 2020

The He-100 that broke the speed record was NOT a stock military airplane. It had a DB 601R (1,650 hp) rather than the standard DB 601Aa (1,159 hp) as well as further clean-ups.

I think the He 100 could have been a good one, but the same can be said for the C.205, G-56, Re 2005, VL Pyörremyrsky, S.M. 91 / 92, Ki-83 and several others. Heck, the He 112 could have been a good one with a weight-saving project and some further development.

There is no shortage of potential winners in the "population of 1" prototypes of WWII. The Republic Superbolt was certainly in there, too, along with many more.

fastmongrel · Jul 12, 2020

SaparotRob said:
Okay, I'm not good at the technical stuff at all but the Me262 seems to be missing in my link. The Corsair was faster than the Meteor? I see why you included the caveat. The pictures are beautiful though!

Don't forget RAF roundels on an aircraft increased drag by 300%. Painting on a star increases speed by 10mph painting on a crooked cross increases speed by 70mph.

Seriously though the first batch of Meteor F1s were very slow at about 420mph.

Vincenzo · Jul 12, 2020

Denniss said:
I believe the Re.2005 was a tad faster than the Veltro due to slightly better aerodynamics.

i think that the dimensions works against the Re.2005
MC.205V/Re.2005
wing area 16.8/20.4

Admiral Beez · Jul 12, 2020

fastmongrel said:
Seriously though the first batch of Meteor F1s were very slow at about 420mph.

The Caproni Campini Ca.183bis, based on Italy's first jet aircraft was supposed to execed 450 mph.

Clayton Magnet · Jul 13, 2020

Admiral Beez said:
Not sure of the accuracy here, but this is something....

https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/ww2-aircraft-ranked-by-speed-fighters.asp

There is that pervasive "Spitfires went 369mph" trope again.
I see that constantly on a Facebook page, "There is no way a Spitfire could intercept a V-1, they could only do 369mph!"

Admiral Beez · Jul 13, 2020

Clayton Magnet said:
There is that pervasive "Spitfires went 369mph" trope again.
I see that constantly on a Facebook page, "There is no way a Spitfire could intercept a V-1, they could only do 369mph!"

I often wonder why we non-pilot types gauge aircraft in mph anyway. Shouldn't it be in IAS in knots? With the right tail wind I imagine a Spitfire could exceed 600 mph in ground speed.

Massimo Tessitori · Jul 16, 2020

I think to remember that the max speed of the Re-2005 was 628 km/h while the MC-205 reached 650 km/h.

Denniss · Jul 16, 2020

with a fully rated DB605A both should be faster. Although heavier then the 109 they lacked the humps and bumps of the 109 and had a larger wing area which should help at higher alt.

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