Finnish air force Mustang kills on Russian Front?

taly01 · May 22, 2018

I came across a detailed listing of Finnish Air Force kills during 1944, 334th Eagle Squadron Forums » Post 1824 » Re: Tali-ihantala Fin vs Russia 25.6-9.7.44 interesting that these 109G's claimed Mustang kills? Did the Soviets receive any Mustangs? Otherwise I cannot see how the Finnish AF planes would have flown anywhere near usual USAAF areas? All on the same day 26 June 1944..................

26.6.1944 10.55–12.10 Tali Ylik Aimo Vahvelainen 109G-2 MT-238 Mustang
26.6.1944 16.30–17.40 Mannikkala Kers Kosti Keskinummi 109G-6/U2 MT-443 Mustang
26.6.1944 12.55–14.00 Juustila-Tali Ltm Ilmari Juutilainen 109G-6/U2 MT-422 Il-2 ja Mustang
26.6.1944 15.00–16.10 Tammisuo Ltm Ilmari Juutilainen 109G-6/U2 MT-459 Mustang

Lefa · May 22, 2018

taly01 said:
I came across a detailed listing of Finnish Air Force kills during 1944, 334th Eagle Squadron Forums » Post 1824 » Re: Tali-ihantala Fin vs Russia 25.6-9.7.44 interesting that these 109G's claimed Mustang kills? Did the Soviets receive any Mustangs? Otherwise I cannot see how the Finnish AF planes would have flown anywhere near usual USAAF areas? All on the same day 26 June 1944..................

26.6.1944 10.55–12.10 Tali Ylik Aimo Vahvelainen 109G-2 MT-238 Mustang
26.6.1944 16.30–17.40 Mannikkala Kers Kosti Keskinummi 109G-6/U2 MT-443 Mustang
26.6.1944 12.55–14.00 Juustila-Tali Ltm Ilmari Juutilainen 109G-6/U2 MT-422 Il-2 ja Mustang
26.6.1944 15.00–16.10 Tammisuo Ltm Ilmari Juutilainen 109G-6/U2 MT-459 Mustang

Probably wrongly identified Yak 9.
I understand that The British deliver the Soviet Union 10pc P51B versions, but I have no knowledge of their fate.
So it is possible but unlikely.

Milosh · May 22, 2018

Not P-51Bs from the brits.

The first two ex-RAF "Mustang I" planes have been shipped in December, 16, 1941, last aircrafts have arrived in the USSR on May, 14, 1942. One of first planes in June - July 1942 was tested in Scientific research institute of Soviet Air Force. Most of technical parametres were not pleasant to the Soviet experts; they liked only powerful weapons.

Most part of those ten "Mustangs" was transferred in 6th Reserve Brigade (the Commander - colonel Shumov), where P-51s were used as trainers. For example, in Summer, 1942, during the training of personnel of 1st ferry-flights Division (these men should know features of American aircrafts), the five P-51s were used. Three of them were used long enough, and were based on aerodrome in Ivanovo town.

Three "Mustangs" from August, 22, 1942 have been directed in 3rd Air Army (Kalininskiy Front) for front trials. Two of them were used in 5th Guard Fighter Regiment, which was equipped with Lavochkin - Gorbunov - Gudkov LaGG-3 fighters. Mainly, on these P-51s the Regiment's Commander V. A. Zaytsev flied; but other pilots also tested these aircrafts - but planes were not pleasant... No one real air combat flight was made. Soon, the airscrews of those two fighters were damaged, and they were returned back (because of lack of spare airscrews).

One of ex-RAF "Mustangs" has been received by Training Regiment of Zhukovskiy-named Air Force Academy (Moscow); in 1946 it was still in the using there. Later this plane served as an element of exhibition of aviation technics. Another "Mustang" was in exhibition of Bureau of new technics in Central Aero-Hydrodynamic Institute (Moscow).

Thus - no any mentions about "the Northern Fleet" in history of Soviet "Mustangs".
The Northern Fleet was the user of another American fighter - P-47.

Russian P51's

taly01 · May 24, 2018

Its interesting that only on 26 June 1944 did the Finnish pilots claim Mustang kills, if it was poor Identification there should have been other days also. Maybe it was a batch of Yak-9 in silver with maybe "US style" type painted noses?

Wurger · May 25, 2018

Yak-9 didn't wear the silver camo during the war. These were either of the Green/Black or Light Grey/ Dark Grey colours.

Milosh · May 25, 2018

What date did Mustangs start going naked?

Just Schmidt · May 25, 2018

It was at the exact time B 17's and P 51's were making scuttle raids, landing on Russian airfields. However, I don't know that this should have taken them close to Finland, but maybe some related, but less known though somehow connection actions, could have involved these fighters?

It's a long shot, as i will be the first to admit. Still, if misidentification isn't the case, I can think of no better explanation. In connection with the (to my eyes more likely) explanation of misidentification, I'm not sure (but again could be wrong) that the Finns would of necessity have expected Mustangs to wear silver camouflage, or for that matter any unpainted fighter to be a Mustang. I wonder how familiar they were likely to be with the looks of the type?

taly01 · Jun 4, 2018

Found this, an post war interview with one of the Finnish pilots involved, it seems the soviets did use their early P-51's for one short period in 1944.

MH: Another unusual plane on your victory list is the North American P-51 Mustang of which the Soviets received only 10. Could you describe your two encounters with the Mustangs?

Juutilainen: The only time we saw Mustangs was during the peak of the Soviet summer offensive of 1944. The Mustangs we met were older models, with Allison engines. On June 26 we had just been escorting Bristol Blenheim bombers and were returning over the front line when I saw a Mustang approaching me from my right side in a right turn with his belly toward me. I yanked the throttle to idle to let it slide past me. The Mustang pilot, however, recovered his turn and then saw me. He also pulled his throttle back, and I saw long flames backfiring from his exhaust pipes. He also kicked his rudder to slow down, but I was doing the same thing, and because I had started sooner than he, the Mustang slid right out in front of me. The Mustang pilot then went to full power and tried to shake me off his tail with a climbing turn. In so doing he made his last mistake and flew directly in front of my gunsight. I fired, and soon the Mustang was burning in the forest near Tammisuo. Two days later my section was returning from a reconnaissance mission and made the usual detour to have an aerial engagement before returning to base. Soon we saw an Il-2 formation coming toward us escorted by three Mustangs. One of them pulled left and the other two went into a dive. In a tight diving turn I went after the airplane that had broken left, firing short bursts to break the pilot's mental backbone. It worked, for he apparently got nervous and went into a dive. The pilot kicked his rudder, but much too rapidly, only causing the tail to waggle while his plane stayed rather comfortably in the middle of my sight. The target was at an altitude of about 150 feet when it caught fire and crashed into the tall pine trees

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Finnish air force Mustang kills on Russian Front?

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