Focke Wulf in Moscow

[spicmart]

Found this pic in an FB group where it has been discussed what Focke Wulf that is, to no conclusion.
Anybody know more?

 

[SaparotRob]

Lost.

 

[Wurger]

Here are three shots of much better quality ... These pictures are said to be taken in 1943 at the beginning of the exibition of the German's military, captured stuff in the period of 1941-1943 that lasted to 1948. On left and forward to the Fw 190D, there was the Fw 109A-4 and on the right slightly back there was a Ju-87D. Later, it seems the Fw 190D and A were removed and a Bf109F/G was moved and exposed there. The soviets added more of the captured stuff in the time the exibition was open. Regarding the Fw 190 ... IMHO it may be an early Fw 190D what may suggest the early in shape cockpit hood.

the source: the net.

and here the tail seen ...

the source: the net

 

[wells]

They captured a 190D in 1943?

 

[Wurger]

They captured a 190D in 1943?

Unfortunately Russians lumped together all the pics taken during the display from 1943 to 1948. IMHO the shot with the Fw 190D was taken later than in 1943 when the exibition started. It is very likely it was 1944/1945. There is a colour footage made by the Mosfilm and dated on October 1943. In the short movie it can be noticed that the Fw 190A-4 "White 11" was already there. However the Fw 190D can't be seen though. Actually there is more questions regarding the time period because of the soviet propaganda. I have seen, at least, three images of the display panorama. The positioning of planes in these pictures is different. Also the number and aircraft types. So it is quite difficult to state when the Dora could be captured and donated there. The aircraft can be noticed only in one shot of the three with the general view of the aviation section of the exibition .

 

[J.A.W.]

It would be feasible to state that no longnose Focke Wulf could appear in Moscow prior to service entry.
Unless a pre-production unit - was stolen by a traitor who then 'defected' to the GRU - while in flight?

 

[Wurger]

The caption of the pic posted in the first post here says that the image was taken in the Summer of 1945. And I'm going to agree that the 1944/1945 is the most likely date. However as mentioned there is a mixed collection of pictures taken in different time periods but stated by Russians it was 1943. IMHO the GRU doesn't seem to have anything in common with that.

 

[bf109xxl]

Unfortunately Russians lumped together all the pics taken during the display from 1943 to 1948. IMHO the shot with the Fw 190D was taken later than in 1943 when the exibition started. It is very likely it was 1944/1945. There is a colour footage made by the Mosfilm and dated on October 1943. In the short movie it can be noticed that the Fw 190A-4 "White 11" was already there. However the Fw 190D can't be seen though. Actually there is more questions regarding the time period because of the soviet propaganda. I have seen, at least, three images of the display panorama. The positioning of planes in these pictures is different. Also the number and aircraft types. So it is quite difficult to state when the Dora could be captured and donated there. The aircraft can be noticed only in one shot of the three with the general view of the aviation section of the exibition .

The exhibition was constantly growing, the exhibition staff (about 120 persons) was sent to the front to select captured armaments. The exhibits could be moved as the collection grew.

 

[Wurger]

I agree.

 

[spicmart]

The (seemingly) square wing tips seem off.
Looks like the wing tip of a Ta 152?

 

[Wurger]

The lack of the Pitot tube at the starboard wing tip may suggest a damage to the area. In the enlarged shot you may see the slot for the tube. The Ta 152 didn't have the Pitot tube attached in the location. I mean that close to the wing tip. Also the chord of the wing tip seems to be larger than the one for the Ta-152.

However the air intake to the supercharger looks like the one form the Ta 152. It is too large for the standard D-9.

Additionally .. the more I look at the pics the more I become convinced the Fw 190D could be assembled with a couple of parts taken from other planes. Please look at the tail. There is a lack of the small antenna mast on the fin top. Evidently it was broken off. What is more, a close up look at the stabilizer and elevator reveals the strange looking shape of the parts. The next detail that may be the evidence the plane was captured as a damaged kite and was repaired with randome parts provisionally, is the opened slot ( at least it looks like ) for the horizontal stabilizer. The Fw 190 had the part adjustable so there was a kind of a "collar" attached to the stabilizer root edge covering the opening. About the top hatch for the fuselage MG compartment in the different colour and the fuselage cover in front of the MG barrel outlet I don't mention. Anyway I also thought about the D-13. However, the cockpit canopy doesn't fit to the aircraft although the air intake does. But taking into the consideration the plane could be repaired, the cockpit hood could have been taken form another Fw 190 and attached. Perhaps that's the reason the cockpit canopy couldn't be slided forward fully. To sum up .. the D-13 is very likely.

 

[rprosperi]

I agree it's a FrankenDora - looks to me like mostly a D13 with a standard 190 canopy and tail grated on as the Dora stab had an extra slice making it wider (not as wide as Ta, but more than a A/F/G - about 3-4"?)

 

[Snautzer01]

The lack of the Pitot tube at the starboard wing tip may suggest a damage to the area. In the enlarged shot you may see the slot for the tube. The Ta 152 didn't have the Pitot tube attached in the location. I mean that close to the wing tip. Also the chord of the wing tip seems to be larger than the one for the Ta-152.

View attachment 759399

However the air intake to the supercharger looks like the one form the Ta 152. It is too large for the standard D-9.

View attachment 759400

Additionally .. the more I look at the pics the more I become convinced the Fw 190D could be assembled with a couple of parts taken from other planes. Please look at the tail. There is a lack of the small antenna mast on the fin top. Evidently it was broken off. What is more, a close up look at the stabilizer and elevator reveals the strange looking shape of the parts. The next detail that may be the evidence the plane was captured as a damaged kite and was repaired with randome parts provisionally, is the opened slot ( at least it looks like ) for the horizontal stabilizer. The Fw 190 had the part adjustable so there was a kind of a "collar" attached to the stabilizer root edge covering the opening. About the top hatch for the fuselage MG compartment in the different colour and the fuselage cover in front of the MG barrel outlet I don't mention. Anyway I also thought about the D-13. However, the cockpit canopy doesn't fit to the aircraft although the air intake does. But taking into the consideration the plane could be repaired, the cockpit hood could have been taken form another Fw 190 and attached. Perhaps that's the reason the cockpit canopy couldn't be slided forward fully. To sum up .. the D-13 is very likely.

View attachment 759415

Could have been one of the ones the soviets used for a bit. Famous picture of the ones with a red star on then cones to mind.

 

[Wurger]

It is possible. But all of them were the D-9 variant IIRC. As memo serves soviets captured about 88 Fw 190D in total. Perhaps there could be the one among them.

 

[bf109xxl]

Could have been one of the ones the soviets used for a bit. Famous picture of the ones with a red star on then cones to mind.

You can find more pictures of the Fw 190D-9 with red stars (I counted five) in the book "Die deutschen Flugzeuge in russischen und sowjetischen Diensten 1914-1951 (Band 2)" by A.Alexandrov and G.Petrov, FLUGZEUG Publikations GmbH, 1997. Two regiments of the Soviet Baltic Navy used the D-9 in 1945-1946.