Graf Zeppelin may have been found

[the lancaster kicks ass]

they couldn't, at the start of the war what was the whole Kriegsmarine? in terms of capital ships? and how do you get the KM out into the atlantic? massive ship movements even over a period of several months don't go un-noticed.........

 

[Henk]

Lanc, please read again. I said a what if. If Germany prepaired her navy better before declairing war like expanding the navy more and have a navy that will be able to take on the RN THEN and only THEN they could have given the RN a beating.

 

[Hop]

That assumes the British watch the Germans build a dozen or more battleships, hundreds of cruisers and destroyers, and a few carriers, and do nothing. No expansion of the Royal Navy.

In the real world, if the Germans had begun expanding their navy dramatically, the British would have done the same, and there would only be 1 winner in that arms race. The British had far more shipyard capacity and were starting from a much larger base.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Sorry Henk but Lanc and Hop are right on this. There cant even really be a what if scenerio because there was no way it was going to happen unless the Brits were blind and that was not going to happen.

 

[Henk]

Yes, ok I see what you mean.

 

[HealzDevo]

Actually, sorry but they were blind, DerAdlerIstGelandet. One word for you- Chamberlain- If was still in power, Germany could have expanded all it wanted, as Chamberlain would just call for calm and hold up worthless peace accords with Germany. At least from a British perspective. Also you have to remember that historically nothing was really done until Germany invaded Poland, which ruined Chamberlain and gave us Winston Churchill who had always been suspicious of Germany's motives.

 

[Hop]

One word for you- Chamberlain- If was still in power, Germany could have expanded all it wanted, as Chamberlain would just call for calm and hold up worthless peace accords with Germany.

Chamberlain actually increased British military spending hugely to counter the German military build up. He migh have genuinely believed he had secured peace, but he certainly didn't stop preparing for war.

British military expenditure, millions of pounds:

1936 - 186
1937 - 262
1938 - 400

Also you have to remember that historically nothing was really done until Germany invaded Poland, which ruined Chamberlain and gave us Winston Churchill who had always been suspicious of Germany's motives.

Chamberlain didn't take concrete steps against Germany until after Hitler annexed the rump of Czechoslovakia. As he said, there was some justification for Germany's moves up to that point (Hitler had only absorbed territory that was ethnically German, and had had popular support for doing so).

When Germany annexed the non-German parts of Czechoslovakia, in violation of the Munich agreement, Chamberlain made overtures to Poland to guarantee the Polish border against Germany. That was effectively drawing a line in the sand against further German expansion.

Don't forget it was Chamberlain who offered guarantees to Poland, and Chamberlain who declared war in support of those guarantees.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I seriously doubt Chamberlain would have just let Germany build her Navy to superior numbers than the British Navy without doing anything at all.
The Brits had far more capacity to build ships than the Germans did. Chamberlain would have increased ship building and the Germany Navy still would not have had a chance. Therefore no he was not blind.

 

[HealzDevo]

Ok, I had just always thought that Chamberlain had done nothing. Still he wasn't exactly all that assertive at any time really towards Germany, I think. By the time he did something, Poland, it was already too late...

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Go to the Manifest Destiny thread HealzDevo and you will see that they could not do anything before Poland...

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

just remember one of his reasons for appeasing Hitler was to buy us time to build up our armed forces! he wasn't stupid he knew what we needed and eventually he declared war, he was no chicken either!

and RE the navy, regardless of who was in power, the RN was vital to Britain, we still had a huge empire to protect and it was still the navy's job to protect it, the navy for Germany was something of a novelty as their main force rested in their army, for us the Navy was the strongest of all our forces because it had to be, just as before WWI we would never let Germany get ahead of us, we knew that if we did we were done for, it was our naval supremacy that starved Germany in WWI and it was our Navy that was vital for protecting supplies from America at the start of WWII, it's something that non-Brits struggle to comprihend at times i think but in this time period, regardless of political situation, we could NEVER let annother European power becomne stronger than us on the seas, we couldn't afford to..........