Griffon P-51

[drgondog]

I saw a fromtal area comparison of the two, and while the Griffon is slightly larger, they're pretty close. I'll post it when I stumble back on it.

The issue wasn't volume - it was heavier than Merlin and pushed the cg too far forward. Required moving the wing forward, whereas dropping the wing for conversion from Allison to Merlin was not an airframe changing big deal as it did not change the aerodynamic center. Moving wing, wing attach, forward. was a very big deal.

Similar issue with 2S/2S Allison into NA-73/83/91

 

[Reluctant Poster]

The issue wasn't volume - it was heavier than Merlin and pushed the cg too far forward. Required moving the wing forward, whereas dropping the wing for conversion from Allison to Merlin was not an airframe changing big deal as it did not change the aerodynamic center. Moving wing, wing attach, forward. was a very big deal.

Similar issue with 2S/2S Allison into NA-73/83/91

How much did the Commonweath CA-15 have in common with the P-51?

 

[GTX]

How much did the Commonweath CA-15 have in common with the P-51?

Not much really other than general appearance.

 

[SaparotRob]

Didn't the "Kangastang" start off life as a radial design?

 

[GTX]

Didn't the "Kangastang" start off life as a radial design?

There's a bit more to it than that but essentially yes:

 

[SaparotRob]

Yup. You can see the Mustang's influence.

 

[GregP]

Greg,

Is that a Flug Werks Fw190 with the R2800 in it?

Cheers,
Biff

Hi Biff!

Sorry I didn't check this for so long. Yes, it is. It still flies from the Planes of Fame in 2022.

 

[Reluctant Poster]

In addition to all of the physical problems associated with putting a Griffon into the P-51 there is also the question of where the Griffons come from. According to the Fedden Mission to America Report

It would seem that was an either-or problem. The major user of Packard Merlins was the RAF. In particular the Lancaster program was heavily dependent on the US produced Merlins. A wholesale switch over to Griffons as not a practical proposition.

 

[nuuumannn]

Another question about putting a Griffon in the P-51 is why would you need to? I guess it depends on timeline. As we know, RR considered the idea and built a mock-up, but performance wise, what would it offer by the time it entered service that wasn't already being reached by jets?

 

[wuzak]

In addition to all of the physical problems associated with putting a Griffon into the P-51 there is also the question of where the Griffons come from. According to the Fedden Mission to America Report

View attachment 677206

It would seem that was an either-or problem. The major user of Packard Merlins was the RAF. In particular the Lancaster program was heavily dependent on the US produced Merlins. A wholesale switch over to Griffons as not a practical proposition.

The US built a facility for the production of the Continental IV-1430, but it ended up building radials for a time, then, eventually, Merlins (presumably started after the IV-1430 was cancelled).

Could this factory have been used to build Griffons?

 

[EwenS]

The US built a facility for the production of the Continental IV-1430, but it ended up building radials for a time, then, eventually, Merlins (presumably started after the IV-1430 was cancelled).

Could this factory have been used to build Griffons?

That was the Continental Motors, Getty Street Plant, Muskegon, MI. Construction started July 1941. It produced

R-1430 for XP-67 Bat. 23 engines produced Aug 1941-Dec 1942
R-1340 for T-6/SNJ from April 1943 to Nov 1944. 5,100 produced.
V-1650-7 Merlin from Aug 1944 to June 1945. The contract for 8,500 was cancelled in May 1945 after 797 produced.

It can't have been a very big plant given relatively low build cost ($5m) and low production levels.