Hans ekkehard bob bf 109 F2 wnr 7186?

[aurelien wolff]

Hello, while looking for inspiration for the winter scheme of my eduard bf 109 F2, I found this book shows a different yellow 9 compared to eduard: Erik Mombeeck's new book preview- A "Special" Luftwaffe Gallery No III JG 54 'The Green Hearts'. It doesn't really looks like it's the same plane, the book doesn't seem to give it a wnr on its profile unlike eduard , Iwonder if we know more about this plane.

Thanks for your answers!

 

[Wurger]

Judging by the Werk Nummer it can't be the F-2 but F-4. The block of 1046 aircraft of the W.Nr.6999-7660 was made by the WNF factory in the time period 05.1941- 12.1941.

 

[aurelien wolff]

J-C Mermet gave it as a F4 wnr too in his list, odd from eduard to interpret it as a F2.

 

[aurelien wolff]

Those are claimed to be pics of yellow 9 and sait to be a F4:

it's from there: Jagdgeschwader 54 JG54
no idea about the inscription, it's not on the second pic who's claimed to be yellow 9 too.

 

[Wurger]

IIRC, Hans Ekkehard Bob was shot down over the Russia three times. So I assume he lost two or three planes at least. Here is a pic of "Yellow 9" taken in winter 1941/42. As you may notice the Staffel emblem was overpainted on the engine cowling. Also there was an inscription between the Gruppe emblem and the JG one. In the book "Ace Profile 1" there is the same pic and the caption says it was F-2.

Also I found the next profile of the Yellow 9 and again it says it was the F-2. But again , the Werk Nummer 7640 doesn't correspond to the Bf 109 type. None of the F-2 had a such serial. However the F-2 and F-4 didn't differ in the esternal appearance much. So it may be easy to confuse these two sub-types.

the pic source: the net.

 

[aurelien wolff]

Maybe eduard choosed to depict one of those aircraft and since we don't have much pictures, they took one yellow 9 as inspiration and messed up the wnr in the instruction (it's not on the decals or the profile). The emblem below the canopy seems to hae been overpainted for the inscription too and then repainted foward(?)

 

[Wurger]

I have thought the same. But what would be overpainted there? The Gruppe emblem is still behing the right leg of the guy sitting on the fuselage. Judging by the shape and its blurred dark edges I would say it is a mark that was made by washing/cleaning with a thinner for instance. But there is the another profile of the Yellow 9 in the mentioned book. According to the profile the Gruppe emblem was just in the cleaned area. So it might have been washed up for the inscription and then a new emblem was applied but moved more forward. The kite is said to be the F-2 but no serial is given. I found the same looking profile via the net.

the profile source: the net.

The another matter is the overpainted Staffel emblem .... the white patch is too rectangular in shape and not of the size for the 9 Staffel badge.

 

[Wurger]

View attachment 737821
it's from there: Jagdgeschwader 54 JG54
no idea about the inscription, it's not on the second pic who's claimed to be yellow 9 too.

It is not the "Yellow 9" but the "Yellow 3" Here is the another shot of her with the "3" digit seen partially.

the source: FalkeEins - the Luftwaffe blog

 

[aurelien wolff]

my theory would be the previous insignia bing moved foward for the inscription. I think eduard messed up with the wnr because they don't give it on decals, I'll adapt the scheme on my F2.

 

[Wurger]

Actually, the Friedrich in the winter camo were painted with a white washable paint over the standard RLM camouflage. And almost always , the Werk Nummer applied on the fin was overpainted with the white. So that's the reason it is not noticed usually. So it may be omitted, except the serial can be seen in a pic.

Whether the Gruppe emblem could have been washed up or not ... it could be just overpainted with the white like the Staffel badge. Then there wouldn't be any reason for removing of it. And it would be the easy way to do it, wouldn't it. IMHO the stain, where the inscription was applied, is the result just of cleaning the area with a thinner or just a water before applying.
But the size of the white patch on the engine cowling doesn't fit the 9 Staffel emblem size. See the pic with the "Yellow 3" and other kites of the 9 Staffel with the winter camo.
In my opinion the Bf 109F could be transfered from the another squadron of the III Group. The most possible unit is the 7 Staffel although the numbers and the group marking should be of the white. But I found a pic where it can be noticed that the squadron could use the yellow digits and group sign as well. The 7th Staffel early emblem was the winged clog and its location and size more correspond to the white patch on the engine cowling. BTW .. the equipment rotation among squadrons of the same group was something standard for the Luftwaffe at that time. Additionally the 7 Staffel was quartered on the same Siverskaya airfield, the 9 Staffel was in 1941/42.

 

[aurelien wolff]

I wonder if eduard isn't depicting a plane bob had before or slightly after the one with overpainted insignia and the inscription but messed up a bit in their instruction. One with the same style of number. I want to paint a standard scheme first and then apply the winter paint on my model.

 

[Wurger]

It is quite difficult to answer this. As I've mentioned that he was shot down three time over the Russia. So nobody knows which aicraft of him the pic and profiles show. In my opinion most of the profiles are just a guess only because it seems that there is no pic showing his kites with the full view.
Anyway if you have any doubt you always may use the "Yellow 3" as the object to replicate.

 

[aurelien wolff]

so we don't know since the pic ofyellow 9 only shows one of his planes. I'll take it and do it as a F2 since it's more of a speculative scheme.

 

[Wurger]

I agree. The "Yellow 9" had a quite colourful "uniform" and that makes her a interesting subject. But if it is correct or not ... it is very likely that one of his kites just could look like that.

But let's go back to your initial question ... the shot down "9" ..... she could be of the 9th Staffel but it is not sure to find out without an image of a better quality or any evidence. No Staffel/Jagdgeschwader emblems seen. The pic was taken with the otochromatic film therefore the yellow painted areas seem to be of the black. However the digit "9" and the Group marking ( the wavy line at the back of the fuselage ) also could be of the black but not of the yellow. That could indicate the 8th Staffel of the JG54. But as I said ... no Staffel/Jagdgeschwader badges seen. As a result it is difficult to say if it was of the third group of the JG54 or of a different JG although the band around the LF cross may indicte the Grün Herz unit though. There is a small dot in front of the "9". I have already seen a such marking somewhere. But where .. I can't remind myself.

 

[aurelien wolff]

I didn't noticed the missing insignia, so this could be another 9 than the one with the inscription. I also choosed it because it'll be a good training for drybrush and winter scheme.

 

[Wurger]

Yes it could be the different "9", not necessarily of the JG54.

 

[aurelien wolff]

Eduard give the yellow 3 in the 1/72 combo I'll try to get it with an airbrush nozzle and volume 2 on the 109 by J-C Mermet.

So to conclude, the yellow 9 could've been a F2 and the schemes are guesses/speculation.

 

[Wurger]

So to conclude, the yellow 9 could've been a F2 and the schemes are guesses/speculation.

Yes it could be the F-2. But the scheme for the "Yellow 9" with the all three emblems is the supposed one rather. The camo with the white patch on the engine cowling is quite well documented by the image. So the profile from the Ace Profile book is correct just for the one.
IMHO, the mistake with the other ones was made because of the wrong identification of the plane with the cockpit warming device connected. In most books I found the same shot with the caption saying that's the "Yellow 9". But in fact it's the "Yelow 3".