Hans Joachim Marseille Bf-109F-4/Trop markings and paint?

Discussion in 'Aircraft Markings and Camouflage' started by SPEKTRE76, Apr 6, 2013.

  1. SPEKTRE76

    SPEKTRE76 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2012
    Messages:
    172
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Occupation:
    Boeing Operations Manager
    Location:
    Oak Harbor, WA
    #1 SPEKTRE76, Apr 6, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2013
    I would like to know if I'm close to what this aicraft may have looked like? I'm pretty sure on the emblem thanks to Sinsa's wonderful book! I'm talking about the crosses and the color of the sand paint?


    acess 2013-04-06 04-54-05-53.jpg
    acess 2013-04-06 04-54-57-60.jpg
     
  2. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2009
    Messages:
    7,520
    Likes Received:
    946
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This is W.Nr 8673 I presume.

    Here are a few noticeable bits (some of which you may already have covered,but I can't tell from your images)

    1 External reinforcing strips at fuselage/empennage join (frame 9 I think)

    2 Upper,curved,part of pilots back/head armour was removed.

    3 No armour glass windscreen

    4 Whitewall tailwheel tyre (mainwheel tyres unknown)

    5 No thin black outline to white border of swastika

    6 Werknummer applied in black hand lettered script in usual place but with no W.Nr. prefix.

    7 There was a large flake of paint missing from the port side of the white theatre band at the front edge about the same level as the top of the balkenkreuz horizontal arms. It appeared between victories 136 and 151,that is between 6th and 15th September. It might be the result of a bullet strike. There is evidence of a hole in at least one known photograph.

    8 You've got the octane triangle in the wrong place. It was in the usual position for an F-4 above the wing root beneath the filler on the port side.

    9 "Hier Aufbrocken" mark (at least on port side) is not a factory stencil. It is hand written parallel with the lower reinforcing strip on top of the new RLM 79 finish.

    10 "Riefendruck 4,5 Atu" above and to the rear of the tailwheel,giving the infaltion pressure for that tyre,is a factory stencil. It was masked when the new RLM 79 was applied and therefore has a rlm 78,blue,background.

    11 The oxygen filler point and external electrical socket advisory markings on the starboard side were probably overpainted. Evidence is not unequivocal.

    12 Component data plate (port fin between swastika and rudder hinge) overpainted. The main data plate was not.

    13 The fuselage frame numbers were not present.

    14 There were no upper wing walkway lines or trim tab markings.

    A lot of this was because this aircraft,an Erla built F-4/Trop,NOT and F-4Z, had been repainted and updated at depot level between being delivered to the Luftwaffe in November 1941 and its assignment to 3./JG 27 and Marseille nearly a year later. It was probably damaged and under went extensive repair,but no documentation exists to confirm or refute this.

    I think your representation looks really good. The actual colour of the RLM 79 is always going to be an artisitic rather than scientific decision. I hope a couple of those points may help you make it even more accurate!

    Cheers

    Steve
     
  3. SPEKTRE76

    SPEKTRE76 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2012
    Messages:
    172
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Occupation:
    Boeing Operations Manager
    Location:
    Oak Harbor, WA
    THANKS STEVE! Wow man I will get to work. I cannot change the 3D model in the game. The publisher only allows skinning. This is GREAT information and yes you are correct about the Werk number. That portion of paint missing on the portside, do you have a reference picture by chance?
     
  4. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2009
    Messages:
    7,520
    Likes Received:
    946
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The best picture was in "Fighters over the Desert" by Chris Shores and Hans Ring. I don't have a copy anymore and they go for silly money these days. If someone has a copy the picture is on page 61 !

    I've seen a profile with the damage shown,probably in Kitchens and Beaman's excellent Marseille book. Most of the stuff I posted was from notes I took from that book for a model project. That book I'm sure I still have so I'll try and dig it out for you.

    Cheers
    Steve
     
Loading...

Share This Page