Help with 20mm shell identification

[Kemp]

I have had this shell for over 55 years but unable to identify. Some collectors say German others British. Can anyone help. Two photos attached.

 

[Jimbob]

I have had this shell for over 55 years but unable to identify. Some collectors say German others British. Can anyone help. Two photos attached.View attachment 373799View attachment 373800

It doesn't look German. Most German fuzes are aluminum. If you could send a more detailed view of the fuze, or markings, stamps, exc. I might be able to identify it. I have a fairly extensive collection of WW2 ordinance.

 

[MiTasol]

Hi Kemp

There is a web site for aircraft guns and ammunition with colour photos of all different rounds from different countries, and their details, but I cannot find it now. The site is connected to a famous weapons author and I cannot even remember his name at present

My look for it did find this Hispano 20mm Armour Piercing Ammunition which suggests that it is British (2 piece)

A site similar to the one I was looking for but showing only German ammunition is Luftwaffe Aircraft Gun & Cannon Ammo - Inert-Ord.net. As JimBob said it does not look German and the German fuses were aluminium. The site does not appear to have British 20mm ammo details.

You could also try a group like the British Ordnance Collectors Network at Inert Ordnance Collectors

Happy hunting

Mi

 

[Shortround6]

It would appear to be an allied 20mm projectile. The 20mm Hispano and the 20mm Oerlikon sometimes used the same projectiles, the cartridge cases were different.
Weighing the projectile would also help with identification. Even minus filling and the driving band.

The website MiTasol may be referring to is this one; CALIBRE GROUPS

 

[Jimbob]

I agree with the other two posts an would go with Hispano or Oerlikon. The fuze does look British. But both of these weapons were used by many countries.

 

[MiTasol]

The website MiTasol may be referring to is this one; CALIBRE GROUPS

No Shortround it was not and your link is to a far better site for this search.

I did find in my manuals one on German ammunition and attached is the plate on 20mm ammunition. The Phosphorus bullet is the only contender and fails because the German bullet is waisted and Kemp's one is not waisted. I will upload the complete manual if anyone wants it.

 

[Kemp]

It doesn't look German. Most German fuzes are aluminum. If you could send a more detailed view of the fuze, or markings, stamps, exc. I might be able to identify it. I have a fairly extensive collection of WW2 ordinance.

Jimbob: Thanks for the reply. The shell has no markings, stamps...nada! There is an indent on the bottom of the shell. The fuse is made up of steel both sections. Not much to go on. Thanks for your help.

Hi Kemp

There is a web site for aircraft guns and ammunition with colour photos of all different rounds from different countries, and their details, but I cannot find it now. The site is connected to a famous weapons author and I cannot even remember his name at present

My look for it did find this Hispano 20mm Armour Piercing Ammunition which suggests that it is British (2 piece)

A site similar to the one I was looking for but showing only German ammunition is Luftwaffe Aircraft Gun & Cannon Ammo - Inert-Ord.net. As JimBob said it does not look German and the German fuses were aluminium. The site does not appear to have British 20mm ammo details.

You could also try a group like the British Ordnance Collectors Network at Inert Ordnance Collectors

Happy hunting

Mi

MiTasol: Thanks for the leads and information. The shell has no markings or paint residue and the fuse is steel (both parts) I would assume (but Iam no expert).

Thanks for the leads and info.

It would appear to be an allied 20mm projectile. The 20mm Hispano and the 20mm Oerlikon sometimes used the same projectiles, the cartridge cases were different.
Weighing the projectile would also help with identification. Even minus filling and the driving band.

The website MiTasol may be referring to is this one; CALIBRE GROUPS

Shortround6: Thanks for the reply. As mentioned in the previous reply the shell appears to be all steel even the fuse. Weight is 110 grams on the kitchen scale which may be off a gram or two + or -. Hope this helps and thanks.

 

[Shortround6]

The British used an armor piercing incendiary round that used a solid steel nose cap with about 10 grams of filling. I have no idea what the missing copper drive band would weigh. Weight complete was 128 grams (?)
A drill or practice projectile is a possibility.
Actual British fuses were mostly brass and shifted to aluminum post war. American fuses may have been aluminum ?
Actual fuses would be assembled from a number of parts. Steel nose caps would be one or two parts.

Weight can rule out all the rounds that used lighter projectiles although from the shape it seems the Hispano/Oerlikon is the most likely by a large margin. Shape of projectile behind the driving band groove and distance from driving band to crimp grove and the base of the projectile.

 

[Kemp]

Weight with band could push it to 128 grams. The indent(s) on the base would mean it has been fired? Spent a good amount of time looking for any paint or markings. deep scratch on fuse looks like a layer of metal below that copper. Does this make sense?

 

[Jimbob]

Jimbob: Thanks for the reply. The shell has no markings, stamps...nada! There is an indent on the bottom of the shell. The fuse is made up of steel both sections. Not much to go on. Thanks for your help.


MiTasol: Thanks for the leads and information. The shell has no markings or paint residue and the fuse is steel (both parts) I would assume (but Iam no expert).

Thanks for the leads and info.



Shortround6: Thanks for the reply. As mentioned in the previous reply the shell appears to be all steel even the fuse. Weight is 110 grams on the kitchen scale which may be off a gram or two + or -. Hope this helps and thanks.

MiTasol:
I would be interested to see the manual you have. I have several US manuals of German ordnance but not that one.
Thank You,
Jimbob

 

[MiTasol]

MiTasol:
I would be interested to see the manual you have. I have several US manuals of German ordnance but not that one.
Thank You,
Jimbob

As requested