With that helicopter crash in New York spotlighting a worst-fear occurrence—the fuselage breaking free from the rotor—I'm wondering about folding-wings mishaps. One might suppose that the folding mechanism on WW2 U.S. Navy aircraft was a weak spot, or one might guess that Grumman and the rest knew enough to design systems that were practically fail-proof. What do the actual statistics show? How often did American wing-folding mechanisms fail during non-combat (or pre-combat) flights? (Professor Google did not know the answer when I asked.)
How often did wing-folding mechanisms fail in flight?
- Thread starter NTGray
- Start date
Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
don4331
Senior Airman
Actually, there's a lot of engineering that goes into making sure the folding mechanism is neither stronger (stress concentration) nor weak spot (failure point).
That's why some aircraft would have been much more difficult to develop fold for than others.
When correctly designed, the locking mechanism is:
a. Visible that it is secured. I believe it was the F4U has a rod that shows red from the cockpit when the pin isn't completely seated; the locking mechanism for the Swordfish is inline with the mean airfoil line when secured/hangs at 90* to airfoil when not.
b. The forces on the wing (lift) lock the pins in place. (Which does make negative g maneuvers slight more dangerous.)
For a lot of other components, there is:
i. safety wire
ii. cotter pins
iii. lock nuts
iv. damaged threads
So, failure of the wing fold should be rare. On the other hand, failure of the wing fold is probably often fatal, and over water, so very difficult to diagnose...
My extremely limited work with helicopters - they are constantly trying to shake themselves apart.
GregP
Major
A helicopter if a collection of moving parts, all in close formation, all desperately trying to break formation.
Unless you are erxtremely vigilant, sometimes they succeed.
Unless you are erxtremely vigilant, sometimes they succeed.
Admiral Beez
Major
Could a WW2 era aircraft fly with folded wings?
US Naval Aviator tells the story of when an A-7 pilot took off (and landed safely) with its Corsair II wings folded - The Aviation Geek Club
US Naval Aviator tells the story of when an A-7 pilot took off (and landed safely) with its Corsair II wings folded
theaviationgeekclub.com
These photos prove F-4 Phantom and F-14 Tomcat could take off and land with folded wings
You won't believe it but U.S. Navy legendary planes (F-4, F-8 and F-14) could fly with folded wings, asymmetric configurations. To save space aboard the
theaviationist.com
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
The A6Ms?
That might be cheating.
That might be cheating.
cherry blossom
Senior Airman
- 526
- Apr 23, 2007
The A5M would be another example a5m fighter - Japanese Forces | Gallery
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
I remember that photo.
buffnut453
Captain
Could a WW2 era aircraft fly with folded wings?
US Naval Aviator tells the story of when an A-7 pilot took off (and landed safely) with its Corsair II wings folded - The Aviation Geek Club
US Naval Aviator tells the story of when an A-7 pilot took off (and landed safely) with its Corsair II wings foldedtheaviationgeekclub.comThese photos prove F-4 Phantom and F-14 Tomcat could take off and land with folded wings
You won't believe it but U.S. Navy legendary planes (F-4, F-8 and F-14) could fly with folded wings, asymmetric configurations. To save space aboard thetheaviationist.com
As
SaparotRob
mentioned, the A6Ms and perhaps earlier A5Ms might have managed it. I very much doubt any other type could be flown, primarily because there simply wasn't enough thrust and unfolded wing area to keep the planes in the sky. Aircraft like the F4F, F6F and Firefly had backwards-folding wings so there's no way the wing root stump could generate enough lift. The F4U folded at the undercarriage mount and, again, not enough wing root to maintain lift, certainly not given the power available from piston engines.
A U.S. N. F-8 Crusader took off with its wings folded too. Landed OK, but at a land facility. this was described in the Profile Publication on the plane.
On another note, in all the footage of U.S. carrier mishaps, I cannot recall a wing snapping off at the wing fold joint. I have a feeling that the joints were "over engineered."
On another note, in all the footage of U.S. carrier mishaps, I cannot recall a wing snapping off at the wing fold joint. I have a feeling that the joints were "over engineered."
Thumpalumpacus
Lieutenant Colonel
The only ones I've read of are the F8F, which snapped off at the fold, but IIRC that was allegedly a design feature, later removed.
There is absolutely no reason not to make them stronger (apart from obvious cost and weight reasons)
GregP
Major
An altogether unique method used to escape from a bandit closing on your six ...
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
He's signaling a right turn. Very polite.
buffnut453
Captain
Clearly he's from Texas (or Utah or Massachussetts) 'cos he's turning left!
GregP
Major
I say it's a radical left wing type thing ...
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Free Huey!
Photo from DuckDuckGo.com AI search.
Photo from DuckDuckGo.com AI search.
Thumpalumpacus
Lieutenant Colonel
Three lefts equal a right, damn it.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
A few years back I was buying work boots at Sears. I bought two pair. I tried on one pair and it was fine. I put on one from the pair in the second box, fine. I just wanted to get out of there. At home I discovered the second box had two right boots. So two rights made a wrong. That didn't cheer me up a bit.
