improving the 109??

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There is no Curtiss P-30, there is a Consolidated P-30, it's armed with .30 cal. There's a Curtiss XP-31, armed with .30 cal. There's a Boeing P-29, armed with .30 cal.

The P-26 was armed with 2x.30 cal. also
 
Where does this nose-wheel go? There's no room for it in the cowl, and it would have to extend in length from thefront of the cowl back to the firewall. Not to mention the additional weight associated with it. You'd need to move the wing further aft to maintain CG (which doesn't appear to have been donewith this hypothetical a/c)
Not sure if you're saying to install cowl mounted guns, but I can't see where you'd install one.

P.S. you might want to check the copyright notice on the website you plucked that image from:
Reproductions, sale, or disclosure of the contents in any form and in any media (especially in electronic and printed) are prohibited.
 
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Willy Messerschmitt must be turning in his grave. "Where does the nose wheel go?", it goes where Willy designed it to go, under the centre section. As for all the other suggested modifications of the BF109, Willy called it the Me 309, been there done that.
It doesn't matter how many pages of argument or discussion people dream up, the aircraft is what it was and will never be changed. That goes for all the aircraft of WW2. Remember it was time of war, a time of massive transition from rag wing to metal, from 100hp to 2000hp motors, machine guns to cannons. As for production, the US will always have the largest production figures (except for the IL2 production), but it must be remembered that their factories were not being bombed regularly, didn't have forced labour or unskilled labour. The US also converted their auto production facilities for aircraft production. Doesn't matter which way you cut it, its comparing apples to oranges and you can never get a sensible conclusion. Finally, the aircraft were designed by slide rule and hand drawings, all time consuming, not computer generated as today, turn your minds back 80 years.
 

I agee, in the BoB the British still had the Gloster Gladiator as a front line fighter, there were special geographical reasons but that was the case. Four years later they had two 2000BHP+ prop fighters and one jet in service with others in development. The same level of development in Germany and the USA, I am sometimes staggered that posts here allege complete incompetence and disinterest, on all sides things could have been done better but also on all sides the development was staggering. I am 56 as a child I read "Airfix magazine" which had a scratch built model of the still secret Tornado MRCA, the plane is still i service and I am looking forward to retirement.
 
That blue contraption is a tail dragger.

Only the Me309 (and proposed Bf109TL & Me509) had nose gear.
I am working on the graphic of the "top secret" spitfire powered by 2 Rolls Royce Spey jet engines which would have changed the war if not for political in fighting in the MoD.
 
The Bf109TL was actually quite an interesting concept amd would have certainly proved to be interesting had it reached any form of production. The only shortcoming I could see, was it's use of the Me309's tricycle gear, which had proved to be problematic. Of course, it was to have included the Jumo004 and the problems that came with it.

On the otherhand, the Me509 was a reaching concept and I seriously doubt they could have ever worked the bugs out of it.
 
How about if I fly along on a helicopter at 5000' and hose sharks basking in the Gulf of Tonkin with an M-60?
A LW aircraft attacking a US bomber formation faced 1000 x 0.5 cal MGs and they suffered about 10% losses when no escorts were present.
 
But none of this is relevant to the Me-109 which was demonstrably the most effective fighter plane of the war.
The rest of your post wasn't even relevant to the Spitfire which was a match for the 109 throughout the war. In the key battles where the Spitfire and 109 were adversaries the BoB and Malta the RAF prevailed.

Get back on topic this line of posting is boring, about the 109 canopy?
 

The Spit was just as fast as the P-38 when it turned up in Europe. And plenty fast enough to deal with the Nazi planes.

The plane they had with 4 x 20mm cannon was not a high altitude aircraft - one of its drawbacks was lack of altitude performance.

The Spitfire wasn't as fast as the P-51 on the same power, but that's the advantage of 5-6 years of aircraft design evolution.

As a gun platform I am not sure. I don't think it was particularly worse than the P-51.

And, I'd have to check with Dean's America's Hundred Thousand, the P-40 wasn't that great either, particularly in the early versions.
 
The RAF refused their initial order for the P38 because the US wouldn't allow the aircraft to be exported with their secret 'turbocharger'. The aircraft were useless at altitude and relegated to training in the US as P322. When the P38 did arrive in the theatre with turbocharger, they were not that much better. Again comparing apples to oranges and facts of no relevance.
 
Another great myth. The British (and French) ordered (or explored) P-38 variants not only without turbochargers but with the same long nose engines used in the early P-40s instead of the Spur gear engines used in the the early P-38s. They did this in the interest of simplifying the spare engine/spare parts situation. Allison Factory was over 3000 miles away. it also meant the engines both rotated the same direction.
Simple deleting the turbos would have left the counter rotating engines and offered an extra 100hp for take-off at the cost of really poor high altitude performance. (early P-38s used 6.44 supercharger gears).
I would also note that the British got approval to order the "secret" turbocharges by June 5th of 1940 and ordered 524 MK II Lightings with turbos on that date.
 

You're talking out of your arse again.

  • The Spitfire was not flimsy
  • The Spitfire did not have a horrific landing accident rate - it was, in fact, considered easy to land. A quote to that effect by a German pilot (Molders?) was reproduced earlier in this thread.
  • The Bf109 also had a narrow track undercarriage but was more difficult to land. It's the aircraft which supposedly killed more of its pilots than the enemy did (not sure if that was true, would have to check in the myths thread).
  • It depends on how you define spar as to whether the Spitfire has one or two spars.
  • The Spitfire was designed as a defensive fighter, so that climb rate was prioritised over "combat persistance". No point for a defensive fighter to stay longer in the air if they failed to engage the enemy.
  • The number of kills a type got were largely to do with the opportunity. Luftwaffe pilots racked up large numbers on teh Eastern Front, often killing obsolete types.
  • The idea that the B-17 and B-24 killed more enemy aircraft than the Spitfire is ludicrous. Surely that is based on the claims by aerial gunners, which were at least one order of magnitude more fantastical than the claims of fighter pilots.
  • When the USAAC/F were transitioning to the 0.50" HMG the RAF was transitioning to the 20mm cannon. Give that the 20mm Hispano was thought to be as much as 3 times as effective as the 0.50" Browning, I fail to see the evidence where the US was moving towards heavier armament.
  • You didn't mention it here, but did so earlier. The M4 37mm autocannon was a terrible aerial gun, with low rate of fire, poor muzzle velocity and poor ballistics.

Back to the spar issue, here is a quote from our late friend Edgar Brooks:

 

Gee, sounds a lot like the 109?

Turn performance before speed. Well speed was listed first but speed requested was 400kph at 6000 meters. or just about identical to what the Gladiator with a fixed pitch 3 blade metal aircrews could do.

The ability of RCMGs to kill the unarmored pilot. Request/requirement was for 2 7.9mm machine guns with 1000 rounds total (WOW, what and advance over WW I fighters) or 1 fixed machine cannon ( 20mm, 100 rounds) not both cannon and MG at the same time.

Flimsy construction to save weight over strength of the air frame. Strength requirement not given but 109V1 weighed 1404 kg empty equipped and a whopping 1800kg fully loaded (no guns/ammo) or about 75% of what the Spitfire Prototype weighed.

Narrow track landing gear to save weight at a horrendous accident rate that supposedly destroyed more planes than the enemy? Boy does that sound familiar.

Single Spar wing to save weight which let the wing twist on application of Aileron.
Ok you got us that one, but just how fast did the Spitfire have to be going before this problem manifested itself? Hint, it didn't happen in level flight even on later Spitfires.

Short range over Combat Persistence, Yep, 1 1/2 hours at at full throttle at 6000 meters was the requirement, of course that was with either a Jumo 210 engine or BMW 116 engine. What they wound up with was a whopping 235 liters of fuel (or 52 imp gallons) feeding the Jumo 210D engine which made 365hp at 6000 meters max continuous. So yes you could get about two hours at max continuous (but not full throttle) at 6000 meters on internal fuel assuming you could tow the 109 to 6000 meters and then start the engine.

How many things do I have to list??????
 

When, exactly, is that thing going to fly?

The first issue is the contra-prop. Were there ever any, even experimental, contra-props on DB601 or DB605 engines?

When were the turbo versions of the DB 601/5 tested, flown?

With a standard DB601/5 the compressor intake is at the side, so that's where the intake needs to be.

As said by another poster, what you describe is a completely new aircraft.
 

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