January 1931: Regio Esercito you run the show

Discussion in 'WW2 General' started by Vincenzo, Nov 16, 2014.

  1. Vincenzo

    Vincenzo Active Member

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    Following the tomo pauk example as better prepared the italian army (Regio Esercito, royal army) to 1940 war?
    weapons and organization. all need for a good result more efficiency in the italian side (this is unrealistic with the fascist regime but this is a virtual world)

    I start with my proposal for the artillery:
    start the study and reequip of the artillery with less types of historical so:
    a 105 divisional howitzer (call it 105/23 as the historical prototype) equipped with 4 btls each normal and autotrasportabile division, 2 each for the mountain, cavalry and armoured divisions (the mountain get also 2 75/13 btls, the cavalry also a 75/27 Mod.12 horse artillery btln, the alpini stay with a 75/13 btls for each alpini rgt)
    a 149 corps howitzer (149/19) 4 btlns each corp, not in the alpino corp (this get 2 105/23 btlns and 2 100/17 mod.16 btlns)
    a 210 army howitzer (210/22) 3 btlns each army
    a 149 army gun (149/40) 3 btlns each army

    HAA gun 90/53 a btln each army and corp plus the territorial air defence needs
    LAA 20/65 2 btryes for each division (plus territorial AD)
    LAA 37/54 2 btryes each army and corp (+ T AD)
    Infantry AT e support gun 47/32 (1 coy for rgt)
    Artillery AT gun new 65/42 (1 btln for division)

    Obviously they were far to complete te reequip in the summer '40
     
  2. tomo pauk

    tomo pauk Creator of Interesting Threads

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    How good was the Italian army with the mortars? They can be cheap, while offering a good firepower. They can also use lower quality steel for the shells vs. what was needed for the artillery shells.
    Belt fed LMG - purchase a license in Czechoslovakia, or maybe the Browning.
    Stick a muzzle brakel on the field artillery pieces, the decreased recoil allows for a lighter carriage and one need less capable/expensive recoil system.
     
  3. Shortround6

    Shortround6 Well-Known Member

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    For the Italian Infantry Battalion the situation was pretty bad, the ONLY weapons they had that were up to world standard were the 81mm mortars and the 9mm sub-machineguns. Just about everything else was an example of how NOT to do something.

    Italian Artillery, at least the stuff designed between the wars, was actually pretty good, there was just never enough of it.
     
  4. Vincenzo

    Vincenzo Active Member

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    #4 Vincenzo, Nov 17, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2014
    actually the italian infantry btln had not the 81 mortar and the SMG, this were deployed only in wartime (the mortars going down from the rgt level and the SMG (in very limited number) from the production, the MAB 38 originally was a PAI (italian africa police) weapon.

    the 81 mortar was a classic Brandt derivated, the 45 was a waste of resources.
    belt feed LMG were not common if i'm not in wrong. sure would be a good choice
     
  5. Shortround6

    Shortround6 Well-Known Member

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    A problem with many Italian MGs was they had lousy primary extraction which required oiling the cartridges. Either when placed in magazines or an oil pump on the gun. Combined with North African sand this did not turn out well. The Japanese had much the same problem.
     
  6. Vincenzo

    Vincenzo Active Member

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    a post on the organization
    taking out the path before to arrive to the 1940 organization
    5 army
    21 corps (18 infantry, 1 alpino, 1 cavalry and 1 mechanized)
    36 infantry division (8 truck borne, 12 mountain)[3 infantry rgt, 1 artillery rgt, 1 recce cavalry coy (mounted or motorized in truck borne divisions)]
    4 alpine division [2 or 3 alpini rgt, 1 artillery rgt]
    3 cavalry division [3 cavalry rgt (mounted), 1 bersaglieri rgt, 1 arty rgt, 1 L3 cavalry btln]
    3 mechanized division [2 bersaglieri rgt, 1 tank rgt, 1 arty rgt, 1 recce cavalry btln]
     
  7. tomo pauk

    tomo pauk Creator of Interesting Threads

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    As LMG, I was meaning a 7,5-8mm caliber MG.
     
  8. Shortround6

    Shortround6 Well-Known Member

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    Good start, most anything would have better, as the Breda M 30 was among the favorites in the "Worlds Worst LMG Race".

    The barrel change actually wasn't bad (Wiki has it wrong) but everything else was pretty poor.
     
  9. Vincenzo

    Vincenzo Active Member

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    would be good purchae a license for the ZB vz.26 or 30 and built it in the standard 7.35 calibre (curiosity actually was 7.57)

    On infantry weapons
    so infantry squad stay with the Mod. 91/32 rifle (like the historical 91/38 but the change to new calibre anticipated) and 2 new Breda 31 (the czech built on licence).

    i think maybe is good take out the light mortar and concentrate the resources on 81mm mortars, i'm not aware of any successfull light mortat in production in first half of 30, the italian 45mm was not a bad design but too expansive for so few weapon, a 60mm mortar would be usefull but bought a license from french would be a too much.
    For the tripod MG i think a belt feed variant of Breda 37 would be ok (and not up the imports), a 12 weapons coy in each infantry btlns is right for me (historical had a mixed coy with 8 mg and 18 45 mm mortars, the bersaglieri and alpini had not 45 mortars and full mg coy (12 weapons)).
    The 81 mm mortars stay with the historical a coy each rgt up the weapons to 12 (from 6) delete the divisional mortar btln (18 weapons).
    Anticipated the buy of 20mm ATR so o deployed almost in the theaters with a large tank threat
    infantry guns, is impossible to had a 47 coy for rgt so stay with the 65/17 btry and add a plat of 47 (the bersagliery get the 47 coy w/o 65, the alpine only the 47 plat)
     
  10. tomo pauk

    tomo pauk Creator of Interesting Threads

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    For the AFV - maybe build far more 'Semovente' type AFVs, rather than tanks?
     
  11. Vincenzo

    Vincenzo Active Member

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    adding on infantry weapons: the MAB 38 was ordered also from army for infantry plat and coy leaders, and for the tank/AB crew

    armored vehicles

    earlier requirement for a new armored car (historically was only in 1938 ) (also the new vehicles/tractors had a earlier requirement) put in 1936
    quickly evolution to 20mm armed AC

    tanks
    take in consideration the experience of spain war and from the T-26 and the BT-5, was built a fast tank of around 11 tons weight a 47/32 gun in turret and 2 8mm MGs, radio, 4 men crew and light armour (called CV11/38 ), and a break tank of around 20 tons weight a 75 gun, in turret, derivated from field gun and 3 MGs, radio, 5 men crew and good armour (like a Valentine) (called CR20/39)
     
  12. Vincenzo

    Vincenzo Active Member

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    toma had not read your last, semoventi were a emergency solution however if my proposal of a 75 armed breakthrough tank it's too much for the capability (economic and or industrial) a 75 semovente would be a substitute
     
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