Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
I was trying to locate a direct reference, but I've seen in numerous texts the observation that Japan's Bushido Code influenced Japan's thinking about combat and the design of weapon systems like aircraft. There was a tendency to think of aerial combat as "man to man" and "to the death", hence the Japanese design emphasis on dogfighting maneuverability rather than less honorable tactics like boom and zoom. This article doesn't address that directly, but does providing some great insights.It does appear to be the case, for the most part, that Japanese aircraft have larger wing areas that would incur more drag. I've seen this and other similar design choices attributed to a sort of 'manoeuvrability mafia', at least in the IJA, that overruled more technically advanced designs like the Ki-11 (Japanese Peashooter, essentially), Ki-12 and Ki-28 in favour of slower but more manoeuvrable designs like the Ki-10 and Ki-27. The Ki-11 at least appeared to suffer from a slower rate of climb than the Ki-10, but was otherwise more efficient in terms of level speed at altitude. Finding data online for the Ki-12, and for any early-war (or even late-war, as I will get into later) Japanese prototype is not trivial, but it apparently possessed a 20mm cannon, and in addition to the usual 7.7mm pair? The Ki-12 was also Western-designed, requiring a Western liquid-cooled engine like the later Ki-28, and the IJA understandably did not want to rely on foreign licensed engines. The Ki-28 was, though another less manoeuvrable design, faster and could climb higher than most variants of the Ki-27, if any ever did exceed it in these metrics Another issue arises then with the Ki-18, superior to the Ki-10 in nearly all aspects save perhaps turning times or low-speed roll rates. It was a proposal to the IJA derived from an IJN design, the A5M. No need to say much more than that. Supposedly, though I've long forgotten the source of this information, a main concern of the "manoeuvrability mafia" was countering biplane designs that were more common in nearby China, and if that was the case, perhaps a more powerful China (say, earlier unification under the Zhili clique?) would have changed their minds, if slightly. This type of opponent may have contributed to a preference for manouevrability amongst the pilots as well, though I'm not entirely sure. There's some bits of information here and there on this forum that pilots were anxious about the manouevrability of the Ki-43 when it was initially put into production and how even as speed became a more serious issue later in the war, manoeuvrability was apparently still important for Ki-43 pilots when it came to surviving BnZ opponents, something the Ki-84, from first-hand accounts on both sides fast enough to avoid the P-51 / F4U(?) (at low-mid altitudes?), was claimed to have been more vulnerable to thanks to its lesser manoeuvrability.
The main issue with assessing late-war Japanese aircraft performance is a lack of detailed data, especially power curves and the like. For instance, the level speeds of aircraft like the Ki-87 and the aforementioned Ki-83 are given at altitudes above 10000m (>32000ft), and vary between ~680kph (422mph) and <710kph (441mph). Worse, I've seen a slower figure outside of that range given for the Ki-83 at around half the altitude (supercharger, maybe, if the figure's to be believed). I can't say much more than this right now.
That's a well written article but it reads like propaganda. In some ways it oversimplifies certain aspects of the political and economic conflicts that occurred during the lead up to the war. It also relies on stereotypes to explain the expansionist logic used by (according to Robert Mearsheimer) "revisionist" states, countries that seek to upset the status quo through military expansionism. Most scholars don't bother using culture to explain state behavior. The most common method of analysis is to anchor political decisions in Realpolitik. In practical, material and strategic terms.I was trying to locate a direct reference, but I've seen in numerous texts the observation that Japan's Bushido Code influenced Japan's thinking about combat and the design of weapon systems like aircraft. There was a tendency to think of aerial combat as "man to man" and "to the death", hence the Japanese design emphasis on dogfighting maneuverability rather than less honorable tactics like boom and zoom. This article doesn't address that directly, but does providing some great insights.
Silver Bullet Blunder | Air & Space Forces Magazine
Imperial Japan committed a startling number of airpower stupidities.www.airandspaceforces.com
Kk
Great question and it fully answers the primary topic regarding Japanese design philosophy.Does anybody have translations of actual Japanese texts, statements, policy, theory or tactics?
Or any Japanese speakers/readers run across anything?
Thank you, Shortround6,Does anybody have translations of actual Japanese texts, statements, policy, theory or tactics?
Or any Japanese speakers/readers run across anything?
There has been a crapload of misinformation put out about allied aircraft and air doctrine/theory's for the last 80+ years. And most of us can read English/American
The P-40 being designed for low altitude strafing being one. It was fitted with the best high altitude engine the Army could get in summer/fall of 1940.
The two points of view do NOT crossover well.
Maybe the Japanese did believe in the power of maneuver, But they were not the only ones. Italian fighters of 1938-40 anyone?
Soviets first flew the I-153 biplane in 1937. Started production in 1939 and they built 3,437 of them before they stopped.
Soviets believed in a Soviet version of Bushido and "man to man" aerial combat?
When does the Bushido code takeover from combat tactics/experience.
Japanese had been fighting in China for for most of the 30s (since 1933?) and the Italians and Soviets had fought each other in Spain for several years.
The Japanese liked maneuverability and tried to combine maneuverability with speed (monoplanes) while the Italians and Soviets tried to hedge their bets
and built both types at the same time and hoped they had the correct aircraft in the correct part of the sky at the correct time they were needed.
Trying to figure out an air forces psychology based on the hardware they produced is very hard game.
We would also need to separate out what they actually wanted vs what they could actually produce and how much compromise there was between the two.
Much like the USAAF wanted fighters that could fly/fight at 25,000-30,000ft + in 1937-39. But they knew the hardware ( engines and turbos) would not be available until 1941/42.
You need fighters in service squadrons in 1940-41, what do you choose?
The I-153 project (i.e., "I-15 modification 3") was approved in November 1937, and the first flight took place in August 1938; serial production did not begin until spring-summer 1939. The delay in serial production of the I-153, even for the Soviet system, is quite unusual and can be explained only by a rare confluence of circumstances - both typical for Soviet aviation at the time (delay in engine development) and atypical (relocation of the Polikarpov's design bureau, complicated relations with the GAZ No. 1 design bureau, which did not pay attention to the preparation of the I-153 production, being engaged in supporting the production of the I-15bis). There were certain rational arguments in favor of I-153 production - even in 1939, when the combat results of the I-153 in Mongolia were considered as quite satisfactory - but not in 1940! In general - the Soviet system was extremely inflexible and inert due to the low educational level of responsible officials and negative selection for leading positions. This is the answer to the most of the "why?" questions in the Soviet history.Soviets first flew the I-153 biplane in 1937. Started production in 1939 and they built 3,437 of them before they stopped.
Soviets believed in a Soviet version of Bushido and "man to man" aerial combat?
There is a lot in what you say not only here but in the rest of your post.Before we lean too heavily in the direction of the Japanese workforce producing crude and less sophisticated designs, that simply wasn't true. Investigation of Japanese aircraft designs during the war prove this as a fallacy. I have yet to read one that criticises the production values of Japanese aircraft. Yes, things like engine power and armament lagged behind the west, but that was a matter of resources and an internal government and industry deficiency in the appreciation of the evolving battlefield and their reluctance to address it, rather than a lack of sophistication and ability.
Was the Ki43's record exemplary?I was inspired to make this post, having heard of the exemplary record of the Ki-43, and claims that the Ki-100 had similar characteristics to more advanced aircraft like the Merlin-powered P-51 in nearly all aspects of manoeuvrability except, oddly enough, level flight speed, and maybe some other metric I haven't mentioned here.
Actually the effective range of the guns (but not the sights) increased for the better guns by 50-100%. Using WW I guns/ammo in WW II aircraft did decrease the air craft effectiveness.Over the next twenty five years, aircraft became something like three times faster. There were no comparable improvements to the guns other than they got bigger. Gun ranges were about the same in WWII, so hit and run tactics worked for fast, heavy aircraft.
The Japanese were playing catch up. The Homare and R-2800 could both give 2000hp at sea level/take-off. The R-2800 could do it the spring of 1942. In the fall of 1944 the R-2800 was good for 2000hp at 18,000ft in a Corsair using water injection. It was good for 2250-2300hp at sea level. P-47s were good for over 2500hp using water injection.The Nakajima Homare engine produced almost 2000HP with water methanol injection turned on. It was a surprisingly small engine, 36litres, versus the 46litres of the P&W R2800. Successful WWII radial engines were big
According to this thread, the Ki-43 was dong somewhat well against otherwise faster aircraft like the P-51A and P-38, could shoot down medium-heavy bombers even with its relatively light guns, and, especially in the hands of capable pilots, could still shoot down or damage other more advanced fighters. Even its naval counterpart was apparently neck to neck with the F4U out in the Pacific mid-war. To add, apparently, an adept pilot could use the Ki-43's low-speed manoeuvrability to better evade BnZ aircraft, something the faster and more powerful Ki-84 was reportedly worse at, given that aircraft's lesser manoeuvrability.Was the Ki43's record exemplary?
Japanese also anticipated the need for 2000 HP engines. Due to their engine companies indeed playing catch-up, they started making the 2000 HP engines by late 1943/early 1944, ie. some 2 years past the USA or UK.The British and the Americans anticipated the need for 2000HP engines. The Pratt and Whitney R2800 was thoroughly debugged by mid-war and it powered all sorts of big, versatile fighter aircraft. The British got 2000HP out of Napier Sabres and Rolls Royce Griffons, although none of these reached the east to face the Japanese. The Bristol Centaurus mostly missed the war.
The Nakajima Homare engine produced almost 2000HP with water methanol injection turned on. It was a surprisingly small engine, 36litres, versus the 46litres of the P&W R2800. Successful WWII radial engines were big.
Lacking really big engines, the Japanese did not have the option of designing fighter bomber aircraft like Corsairs, Hellcats, and Thunderbolts.
The author of that thread may be somewhat partisan. He is no longer with us and I will not say more than that. I have used a US baseball analogy before. In a 162 game season, most years, every team will win 60 games. Every team will loose 60 games. The difference between 1st and last place in league is 42 games. Any team has the possibility to beat any other team on a given day, even the last day. Japan needed better than a near last place fighters in 1943-44-45.According to this thread, the Ki-43 was dong somewhat well against otherwise faster aircraft like the P-51A and P-38, could shoot down medium-heavy bombers even with its relatively light guns, and, especially in the hands of capable pilots, could still shoot down or damage other more advanced fighters
F4U showed up in Jan 1943, by early July there were 8 Marine squadrons operating in the Solomon's.Even its naval counterpart was apparently neck to neck with the F4U out in the Pacific mid-war.
Evading means surviving. Surviving means living to fight another day, it does not mean that todays mission was successfully accomplished.To add, apparently, an adept pilot could use the Ki-43's low-speed manoeuvrability to better evade BnZ aircraft,
The small American radials coped with the enemy. Everybody had the same sized engine up into 1943. By 1943, the 2000HP American aircraft were faster, they had armour protection, and they could carry significant bomb loads. Getting late war Zeroes up to 350mph was a remarkable accomplishment for the Japanese, but the enemy was doing 390mph+.American small radials were very successful in powering the aircraft that blunted the Japanese military power in 1942. British small radials were succesful in trashing the Italian Navy.
German 1600 HP radials were powering possibly the 1st German aircraft that stopped the Spitfires cold, so perhaps 2000 HP was not all that needed?
They could've designed the fighter-bomber aircraft like that was the Fw 190, the 1500-2000 HP Japanese engines would've been doing great there. Even the Ha 109 powered Ki 61 would've been doing the trick. But, same as with the lack of long range high performance fighters for the RAF: no doctrine = no hardware.
Yes and no. Pretty much, at least for fighters, only the navy/marines were using radials (pretty much only the R-1830).American small radials were very successful in powering the aircraft that blunted the Japanese military power in 1942.
Again yes and no. The 1600hp radials stopped the Spitfire Vs cold in late 1941 and over 1/2 of 1942. The Spitfires warmed up quite a bit in late summer of 1942/Winter of 42-43 with the MK IX and higher boost on the MK Vs.German 1600 HP radials were powering possibly the 1st German aircraft that stopped the Spitfires cold, so perhaps 2000 HP was not all that needed?
See above. The US Army was NOT using small radials in fighters in SE Asia/Pacific, at least not after around March of 1942. Granted the Allison was about a (officially) 1200hp engine (give or take) but the V-12s allowed for higher speed (20-30mph or more?)in the P-39s/P-40s over the 1200hp radial fighters.The small American radials coped with the enemy. Everybody had the same sized engine up into 1943. By 1943, the 2000HP American aircraft were faster, they had armour protection, and they could carry significant bomb loads
Small radials in torpedo bombers. Small radials in fighters???British small radials were succesful in trashing the Italian Navy.
Both the British and Italians had radials of about 840hp at altitude, the Italian 14 cylinder was about a 31.4 liter engine. It was also under 570kg so it had limits.The small British radials were in biplanes, right? Gloster Gladiators did well against FIAT Cr42 biplanes. The Fw190 had a 42liter engine.
A definitive 'yes'.Yes and no. Pretty much, at least for fighters, only the navy/marines were using radials (pretty much only the R-1830).
However the Allison was doing a lot work blunting Japanese air power in 1942 most places there were land bases.
British were feeding in Merlin powered Hurricanes for fighters in Burma/India, Not sure how much they blunted the Japanese but they did put some wear on them
Small radials in torpedo bombers. Small radials in fighters???