Sturzkampfflugzeug
Airman
- 42
- Oct 21, 2019
I'd say the Stuka. Since the Stuka is pretty much like, literally throwing the bomb
JU-87 Stuka vs A36 Apache, which was the better dive bomber?
- Thread starter Todd Secrest
- Start date
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Stuka was more accurate, and really outlived what you would think should be it's usefulness.
A-36 was not designed from the outset to be a dive bomber and ultimately had to be pulled out due to wing failures (possibly just due to fatigue / stress from repeated missions)
But the A-36 could penetrate into heavily defended target areas in the later war period (1943 and 1944) when the Ju 87 was basically phased out, and replaced by the Fw 190. So the A-36 was a mid-war, high speed dive bomber which was in action early enough to play a significant role.
Probably at that point the comparison is between Fw 190 fighter bomber and A-36. And I'm not sure which one wins that contest - A-36 being able to properly dive bomb was probably more accurate, Fw 190 was certainly more heavily armed and I think faster (not certain about that given the altitudes they flew at though). Not sure which one carried the heavier bomb load either.
A-36 was not designed from the outset to be a dive bomber and ultimately had to be pulled out due to wing failures (possibly just due to fatigue / stress from repeated missions)
But the A-36 could penetrate into heavily defended target areas in the later war period (1943 and 1944) when the Ju 87 was basically phased out, and replaced by the Fw 190. So the A-36 was a mid-war, high speed dive bomber which was in action early enough to play a significant role.
Probably at that point the comparison is between Fw 190 fighter bomber and A-36. And I'm not sure which one wins that contest - A-36 being able to properly dive bomb was probably more accurate, Fw 190 was certainly more heavily armed and I think faster (not certain about that given the altitudes they flew at though). Not sure which one carried the heavier bomb load either.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
The Fw190F and Fw190G were designed for ground attack.
Yes and they were using earlier versions before that. I believe it was due to the fighting in Sicily and Italy that they decided they had to phase out the Stuka, at least in the West. Several Ju 87 units transitioned directly to Fw 190s. I think the Stuka lasted a bit longer on the Eastern Front.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Many of the Stuka units were withdrawn from the western front and MTO in early '41 for the Eastern Front.
Several units, like StG1 remained in operation from France (but in reduced numbers due to many Stuka's being transferred east) to continue operations against channel shipping and targets like RN Chatham.
The Fw190F started entering service in spring '42 and was developed from the Fw190A-4.
The Fw190G was an improved version of the Fw190F.
I believe they were also using A-4 and A-8 as fighter bombers?
Anyway the Stuka was still in use in the MTO through the fall of Tunisia I think. I'd have to go open up MAW to be sure to confirm the precise timeline though. Well, hell why am I so lazy it's just 5 feet away on the bookshelf. Hang on...
Ok I see a Ju 87D-3 Trop (from 9./StG 3)damaged in combat on 21 March 1943. 3 x Fw A190 A-4 from SKG 10 also damaged by bombs on the same day, so those like like they are fighter bombers.
Again on 24 March SKG 10 had a Fw 190A-4 crash landed 70% damaged with the pilot WiA, and a Ju-87D-3 trop of 9./StG 3 shot down and crash landed.
31 March two Ju 87s from StG 3 shot down, one by AAA, one by a P-40.
April 7 looks like 7 x Ju 87s from StG 3 shot down or heavily damaged, mostly by Spitfires. One Fw 190A-4 lost too.
April 15, a Fw 190 A-5 from SKG 10 was shot down by AAA and crash landed.
Looks like "Schnell kampf geschwader 10" (fast war squadron 10) was equipped with Fw 190s and one Stab deployed to North Africa in Dec 1942 or early 1943 - some pilots coming from ZG 2 (formerly with Bf 110s)
StG 3 was operating in North Africa since August 1941, with declining efficacy noted by the Second battle of El Alamein in Oct 42. They started taking very heavy losses, Wikipedia says on 11 Nov 1942 they lost 8 out of 15 aircraft to US P-40s. They moved to Sardinia on April 18, 1943 and were withdrawn to Germany shortly after that.
I looked this up in MAW, it doesn't appear in MAW III for that day but there is a big massacre on Nov 11 in MAW II. It shows a loss of 14 aircraft - 5 x Bf 109, 4 x Ju 87, 1 x Ju 88, 1 x Do 17, and 3 x Ju 52, all to British Kittyhawks from 2 and 4 SAAF, 260 RAF, 112 RAF, and US Warhawks from 57th FG. The British lost 9 Kittyhawks (7 of these the older Kittyhawk 1 operated by the South Africans) shot down or crash landed, and one US P-40F. Several other Stukas and other German planes were damaged in the same engagement and subsequently destroyed by retreating troops.
Anyway, the Stuka was clearly on it's last legs by then. By this phase of the Mediterranean war, they operated sporadically and only when they could arrange for heavy fighter cover, but the escorting fighters would typically abandon them and climb away when Allied fighters arrived in force, leading the Stukas to eject their bombs (sometimes over their own troops) and flee for their lives. Stukas had such a good turn radius that they seemed to be pretty good at evading fighters in these cases, but obviously their effectiveness for strikes was greatly reduced.
Anyway the Stuka was still in use in the MTO through the fall of Tunisia I think. I'd have to go open up MAW to be sure to confirm the precise timeline though. Well, hell why am I so lazy it's just 5 feet away on the bookshelf. Hang on...
Ok I see a Ju 87D-3 Trop (from 9./StG 3)damaged in combat on 21 March 1943. 3 x Fw A190 A-4 from SKG 10 also damaged by bombs on the same day, so those like like they are fighter bombers.
Again on 24 March SKG 10 had a Fw 190A-4 crash landed 70% damaged with the pilot WiA, and a Ju-87D-3 trop of 9./StG 3 shot down and crash landed.
31 March two Ju 87s from StG 3 shot down, one by AAA, one by a P-40.
April 7 looks like 7 x Ju 87s from StG 3 shot down or heavily damaged, mostly by Spitfires. One Fw 190A-4 lost too.
April 15, a Fw 190 A-5 from SKG 10 was shot down by AAA and crash landed.
Looks like "Schnell kampf geschwader 10" (fast war squadron 10) was equipped with Fw 190s and one Stab deployed to North Africa in Dec 1942 or early 1943 - some pilots coming from ZG 2 (formerly with Bf 110s)
StG 3 was operating in North Africa since August 1941, with declining efficacy noted by the Second battle of El Alamein in Oct 42. They started taking very heavy losses, Wikipedia says on 11 Nov 1942 they lost 8 out of 15 aircraft to US P-40s. They moved to Sardinia on April 18, 1943 and were withdrawn to Germany shortly after that.
I looked this up in MAW, it doesn't appear in MAW III for that day but there is a big massacre on Nov 11 in MAW II. It shows a loss of 14 aircraft - 5 x Bf 109, 4 x Ju 87, 1 x Ju 88, 1 x Do 17, and 3 x Ju 52, all to British Kittyhawks from 2 and 4 SAAF, 260 RAF, 112 RAF, and US Warhawks from 57th FG. The British lost 9 Kittyhawks (7 of these the older Kittyhawk 1 operated by the South Africans) shot down or crash landed, and one US P-40F. Several other Stukas and other German planes were damaged in the same engagement and subsequently destroyed by retreating troops.
Anyway, the Stuka was clearly on it's last legs by then. By this phase of the Mediterranean war, they operated sporadically and only when they could arrange for heavy fighter cover, but the escorting fighters would typically abandon them and climb away when Allied fighters arrived in force, leading the Stukas to eject their bombs (sometimes over their own troops) and flee for their lives. Stukas had such a good turn radius that they seemed to be pretty good at evading fighters in these cases, but obviously their effectiveness for strikes was greatly reduced.
Gentlemen
Just some added info on the Ju 87, and its use in the eastern end of the Med. Sea
Enjoy
Eagledad
Just some added info on the Ju 87, and its use in the eastern end of the Med. Sea
Enjoy
Eagledad
