Lancaster X: Packard Merlin 38 vs. Packard Merlin 224 Engine.

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JDCAVE

Senior Airman
595
1,019
Aug 17, 2007
During his operational service with 419 Squadron, dad flew Lancaster X aircraft with both the Packard Merlin 38 and Packard Merlin 224 Engines. The following aircraft had the Packard Merlin 38 engines: KB.712, KB.721, KB.722, KB.738, KB.754, KB.762. The following aircraft had the Packard Merlin 224 engines: KB.779, KB.804, KB.839, KB.865. KB.772 "R" Ropey had the Merlin 38 engines as photos of this aircraft show engines with "Tooth-pick" props. The Merlin 224 aircraft had paddle-blade props. The aircraft movement cards indicate that KB.776 was the first of the Lancaster X's fitted with the Merlin 224 engines:

lancasterbombersinfo.ipage.com/Data/Form-78s/Lancaster/KB756-KB827/mobile/index.html

In his audio memoirs, dad's comments WRT KB.779: "At this time, I was flying "B"-Baker [KB.779] and it was a very good aeroplane, it was a very FAST aeroplane, the first "B"-Baker. I was very pleased to be on it. We had a lot of fun." He flew 7 operations on this aircraft. This aircraft was shot down on December 6, 1944 on a raid to Osnabruck when dad was away on leave. He then flew a series of operations on KB.721, KB.762 and KB.733 and he was not happy with any of these aircraft. To Dresden, on KB.721 "And "B"-Baker was a pretty clapped-out old aeroplane, so we were a little bit concerned about it… and it ended up by the time we got back we had feathered and unfeathered all four engines. It was terrible." His logbook records "All engines gave trouble". To Dortmund, February 20/21, 1945: "We didn't do much until the 20th of February, when we went to Dortmund. It was to be our 21st trip and I notice I was in "J"-Jigg [KB.762] and it was a very poor aeroplane…" and recorded in his logbook "Poor A/C." To Duisburg, February 21/22, 1945: "The next night we were off to Duisburg in old "G"-George [KB.733] and it was a lousy aeroplane. Again, [a] terrible time with feathering and restarting and feathering and restarting engines…" recorded in his logbook, "Bags of engine trouble." There are no recorded issues with any of the aircraft fitted with the Merlin 224 engines. And, how can an aircraft with an operational service of ~9 months or less be a "clapped out old aircraft"?

So, are these troubles due to a) less reliable Packard Merlin 38 engines, or b) age of the engines, c) dad bitching about being assigned an older a/c? Can anyone comment on the specific differences of these two engine types, aside from the 224 units being of higher horsepower (1680) as compared to 1400 HP in the 38's. Were there specific differences in the carburetors or supercharger units that might account for the differences in reliability?

I have photos of KB.712, KB.721, KB.722, KB.762 KB.839 (which I have seen at Greenwood NS) and KB.865. I am still looking for a photo of KB.779.
Below: Top KB.865 E-Easy, probably March 1945, Below KB.721 B-Baker, date unknown, both from the HHM Cave Photo collection.

E Easy KB 865 small.jpg


Jim
B Baker KB 721 by Cave at Middleton.jpg
 
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The Packard engine was just as reliable as the RR Merlin. It is very easy for a plane and its engines to become very second hand in 9 months. The "engine trouble" is of course with the engine and prop, but repeatedly feathering and re starting may well be to do with the controls that feather the prop which would be nothing to do with either RR or Packard or even the prop maker, it could be due to damaged controls.
 
The Packard engine was just as reliable as the RR Merlin. It is very easy for a plane and its engines to become very second hand in 9 months. The "engine trouble" is of course with the engine and prop, but repeatedly feathering and re starting may well be to do with the controls that feather the prop which would be nothing to do with either RR or Packard or even the prop maker, it could be due to damaged controls.

Thanks PBehn. Both engine types are Packard Merlin in these aircraft. I'm trying to understand if these issues may have been due to differences in the engines. Specifically, how were they different?
 
Thanks PBehn. Both engine types are Packard Merlin in these aircraft. I'm trying to understand if these issues may have been due to differences in the engines. Specifically, how were they different?
I am reading a couple of Lancaster books at present (Christmas presents). This type of engine needs an overhaul after 250 hours, a mission in WW2 was 6 to 12 hours so it didn't take long for them to become old. There were many versions of the Merlin. The biggest difference is between the single stage and two stage supercharger, generally RR Merlins used SU carburettors while the Packard versions used a Bendix Stromburg. Mk I and Mk III Lancasters are said to have been the same, in fact they were just basically the same, there were all sorts of differences, as I understand it Lancasters with Packard engines had slightly different controls because the engines had different carburettors.
 
According to "The Merlin in Perspective" Alec Harvey-Bailey, RR heritage trust,Historical Series No 2

The differences between a Merlin 38 and a Merlin 224 were

"Double girder pistons
Strengthened supercharger drive
4G8 C.S. unit
Strengthened spring drive shaft
Heavier clutch weights and Strengthened M.S. clutch
stiffened crankcase panels
25 degree pressure angle reduction gears"


A Merlin 28 Was a Packard Merlin XX
A Merlin 38 was a Packard Merlin 22
A Merlin 224 was a Packard Merlin 24
 
Thanks Shortround. In February 1945, Dad's crew was the primary crew assigned to KB.721 and flew it on Ops to Goch on the 7th, Dresden on the 13th, Pforzheim on the 23rd and Mainz on the 27th. So there was a space of 10 days where it was not flown operationally by anyone, from the 13th to the 23rd. Dad flew KB.762 to Dortmund on the 20th and KB.733 to Duisburg on the 21st. KB.721 was not flown by anyone on these days, or on the 14th to Chemnitz. Perhaps it was having a major engine refit. Note that the ORB's do not typically provide detail on aircraft serviceability during the operation: engine failures are not normally recorded. Dad moved over to KB.865 for all 7 of his operations in March 1945.

Jim
 
According to "The Merlin in Perspective" Alec Harvey-Bailey, RR heritage trust,Historical Series No 2

The differences between a Merlin 38 and a Merlin 224 were

"Double girder pistons
Strengthened supercharger drive
4G8 C.S. unit
Strengthened spring drive shaft
Heavier clutch weights and Strengthened M.S. clutch
stiffened crankcase panels
25 degree pressure angle reduction gears"


A Merlin 28 Was a Packard Merlin XX
A Merlin 38 was a Packard Merlin 22
A Merlin 224 was a Packard Merlin 24
The 28 did have a significant advantage over the XX in that it had a two piece block, allowing higher boost. The Dam Busters replaced their XXs with 28s for their famous mission.
 
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