Lockheed F-4A-1-LO to french AF infos needed

[rafju]

Dear All
As the title says, may be you can of any help to clarify some points that I've not found in french books.
activity period: 1943 (following the "Operation Torch")
operation theater: North Africa
I just read that the first two planes "devoted" to the french 33è Escadre de reconnaissance" were the S/N
41-2363
41-2365
And now, what I need to know is about their previous life, before they were in the french Escadre, from which unit did they belong, this is to explain some parts of their nose' markings.

Please what is this marking indicated by the arrows, sometimes under new french marking or partially erased?
The period photos below are either of the 363 or 365:

With many thanks for any info
Raphael

 

[Wurger]

One more shot to the collection ...

 

[rafju]

ok but on your photo this marking , the x2 crossed "things" seems to be repainted.
What was this marking meaning?

 

[Wurger]

The marking in the images you poste above also were overpainted. I'm not sure if it is the marking used in the previous squadron. IMHO the marking looks like two crossed pennants aspplied because of the service handover to the French unit. Just a occasional emblem painted by the UTU. Perhaps there could be the USA or RAF and the French banners or small roundels applied.

 

[yvan moulin]

hello
first sorry for my english I 've lost the use to wright it

now the strange markings :

it's chemical cornuta ( not sure that's the right term) in special paint for combat gaz ..!!! if the aircraft come accross gaz cloud , the color change and you have to take care at the openining of cameras cases ...
i fInd the info in a french book which is the diary of the french 33e escadre de reconnaissance (33th reccon wing) call "Les Chevaliers de l'Ombre "

 

[Wurger]

Welcome to the site.

A quite interesting info. The gaz indicator .... although a little bit strange shape of it but possible.

 

[yvan moulin]

the reason of the shape of the markings .... that were on the first 4 F4 of GR I/33

 

[Wurger]

The chemical retort. That fits. Excellent !

 

[Daniel BASTIEN]

Dear All
As the title says, may be you can of any help to clarify some points that I've not found in french books.
activity period: 1943 (following the "Operation Torch")
operation theater: North Africa
I just read that the first two planes "devoted" to the french 33è Escadre de reconnaissance" were the S/N
41-2363
41-2365
And now, what I need to know is about their previous life, before they were in the french Escadre, from which unit did they belong, this is to explain some parts of their nose' markings.

Please what is this marking indicated by the arrows, sometimes under new french marking or partially erased?
The period photos below are either of the 363 or 365:
View attachment 807531

View attachment 807533

View attachment 807534

With many thanks for any info
Raphael

I confirm : This is a marking (2 crossed chemist cornulas) that had been placed on 4 Lightnings of the Reconnaissance Group 2/33 which participtaed to Operation Shingle, the landing at Anzio in January 1944.

The paint was a special paint that reacted to contact with the combat gases that the Allied command feared the German could use. If, upon landing, the marking had changed color, it would have meant that the plane had flown through a toxic cloud. In such a case, the mechanics would have had to spray the aircraft with water before touching it... and be very careful.

 

[Wurger]

 

[SaparotRob]

I confirm : This is a marking (2 crossed chemist cornulas) that had been placed on 4 Lightnings of the Reconnaissance Group 2/33 which participtaed to Operation Shingle, the landing at Anzio in January 1944.

The paint was a special paint that reacted to contact with the combat gases that the Allied command feared the German could use. If, upon landing, the marking had changed color, it would have meant that the plane had flown through a toxic cloud. In such a case, the mechanics would have had to spray the aircraft with water before touching it... and be very careful.

Wow. Nice bit of information.

 

[bobolex]

I confirm : This is a marking (2 crossed chemist cornulas) that had been placed on 4 Lightnings of the Reconnaissance Group 2/33 which participtaed to Operation Shingle, the landing at Anzio in January 1944.

The paint was a special paint that reacted to contact with the combat gases that the Allied command feared the German could use. If, upon landing, the marking had changed color, it would have meant that the plane had flown through a toxic cloud. In such a case, the mechanics would have had to spray the aircraft with water before touching it... and be very careful.

Hello Daniel, I just re-read the parts around January 1944 in Les Chevaliers de L'Ombre and I can't find a mission that match that information. Could you tell me where you got that info ?

 

[bobolex]

Dear All
As the title says, may be you can of any help to clarify some points that I've not found in french books.
activity period: 1943 (following the "Operation Torch")
operation theater: North Africa
I just read that the first two planes "devoted" to the french 33è Escadre de reconnaissance" were the S/N
41-2363
41-2365
And now, what I need to know is about their previous life, before they were in the french Escadre, from which unit did they belong, this is to explain some parts of their nose' markings.

Please what is this marking indicated by the arrows, sometimes under new french marking or partially erased?
The period photos below are either of the 363 or 365:
View attachment 807531

View attachment 807533

View attachment 807534

With many thanks for any info
Raphael

Hello Raphael, Interesting question, and I have heard different theories about this, including the one about 'former American markings' in Icare magazine. I'm not totally convinced about the 'chemical' theory, since it would imply very low level flights, obviously, but the 2/33 F-4A did take part in dicing missions, so it's possible.
I seem to remember also a theory about the sign indicating a piggy-back (two-seater) modification, which is believable for #363 and #80 (but if your last picture is indeed #365, then that's probably wrong since I don't think it was modified (destroyed on a war mission on 21/03/44).
Could you tell me where your first picture comes from ? I only have the cut-up version of it from Icare.
Thanks, Boris

 

[bobolex]

hello
first sorry for my english I 've lost the use to wright it

now the strange markings :

it's chemical cornuta ( not sure that's the right term) in special paint for combat gaz ..!!! if the aircraft come accross gaz cloud , the color change and you have to take care at the openining of cameras cases ...
i fInd the info in a french book which is the diary of the french 33e escadre de reconnaissance (33th reccon wing) call "Les Chevaliers de l'Ombre "

Hello Bastien, Could you tell me where you found that info in Les Chevaliers de l'Ombre ? I have the book, and I can't remember reading this. Thanks !