LW 1935-39 , MIddle East!!!

[ARTESH]

Something similar to Tomislav's topics , or maybe different...

Timeline: 1935 - 1939 ...

How was it possible for LW, to have bases, at least 3 fighter, one bomber regiment, one Transport [Heavy], plus suport and logistics facilities in ME? In total, how much manpower would have such formation? And how much it would cost to keep it operational?

Where would be ideal place for them?

How would it help both European axis and Japanese? Would it be a "help" at all? Bulgaria would be closest by Air, even by fastest planes of that era, it should be over a day to nearest part of Japan

What where challenges? Both for LW and for allies! Logistics, surely, but how???

Could this force alone, postpone Anglo-Soviet Invasion of Iran? Even a few hours! How much would the cost? Both for Germans and Anglo-Soviet forces!

 

[Admiral Beez]

What is the Luftwaffe doing in the Middle East in 1935? It's all Turkey, British, French or Iraqi.

Here's the region in 1935.

What's the mission for Hitler and Germany in the Middle East 1935? Not even in the 1940-1943 Axis fight for North Africa nor Italy's 1937 invasion of Ethiopia did the Luftwaffe ever see action in the Middle East.

 

[ARTESH]

What is the Luftwaffe doing in the Middle East in 1935? It's all Turkey, British, French or Iraqi.

Here's the region in 1935.

View attachment 735590

What's the mission for Hitler and Germany in the Middle East 1935? Not even in the 1940-1943 Axis fight for North Africa nor Italy's 1937 invasion of Ethiopia did the Luftwaffe ever see action in the Middle East.

That's the point... In that timeline, was LW able to support an operational unit, far beyond its borders? Politics, military, cultural, and many other things involved...

Was the German economy able to support such expeditionary force?

Were the high ranking commanding officers, familiar with area, and its culture, nature, geography, and other things?

What would be general opinion on this subject?

What would other nations think of this?

And many many more questions.

Also don't forget that almost 12000 Germans [Austrians, Swismen, Danes] were living In Iran, at that time. Even there were around 1500 German citizens, in Iran, during occupation, mostly doctors and engineers.

 

[manta22]

What is the Luftwaffe doing in the Middle East in 1935? It's all Turkey, British, French or Iraqi.

Here's the region in 1935.

View attachment 735590

What's the mission for Hitler and Germany in the Middle East 1935? Not even in the 1940-1943 Axis fight for North Africa nor Italy's 1937 invasion of Ethiopia did the Luftwaffe ever see action in the Middle East.

See: "Raiders of the Lost Ark".

 

[Admiral Beez]

Was the German economy able to support such expeditionary force?

Starting from where? And what's the destination? Are you suggesting forced amphibious assault?

You can't just brain fart this stuff out. We need context.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

In the time-frame specified, the Germans weren't able to project that sort of force that far. They were already involved in Spain, desperately trying to round out their own rearmament, not terribly close with Italy, and hadn't the political or economic influence to swing big balls that far afield.

It wasn't until Vichy France came into being that Syria, Lebanon, and northern Iraq could possibly fall into the German lap. That spells 1940-41. Before then, 1936-39, nah.

And we see what happened even in 1941. The Brits beat the French stoolies, and Germany was reduced to Indiana Jones sorts of stuff.

 

[BarnOwlLover]

When Germany and Italy became closely aligned, maybe that could've opened a window. That said, Germany was kind of hamstrung by the size of its armed forces and industry, especially before 1939. And Italy ultimately needed German victory in Western Europe (they never did defeat Britain) to hold on to it's North and East African holdings.

And in truth, though some largely forgotten actions took pace in the Middle East (Iraq, some Italian Air Force raids on Palestine), they were small compared to North and even East Africa, perhaps because of those very vary theaters becoming so important from 1940-43.

 

[GrauGeist]

In 1935, the Luftwaffe was small - committing a full fighter group, let alone a fledgling bomber group, beyind it's borders would have been difficult.

However, it would have been a diplomatic coupe to have a Luftwaffe presence in Iran. This would have also required some serious diplomacy with Turkey to make it work, though.

*if* that did work out, then Germany would have certainly had direct access to the middle east via Bulgaria and Romania, which would have given them a better position to bolster Iraq's military in spring 1941 during the British-Iraq war.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Let's ask ChatGPT https://chat.openai.com/

How can Germany invade the Middle East in 1935?

In 1935, Germany's territorial ambitions and geopolitical situation make a direct invasion of the Middle East a complex endeavor. However, if you're looking for a hypothetical scenario, here's one way it could potentially unfold. Please note that this scenario is purely speculative and does not consider the real-world consequences or ethical considerations.

1. Diplomatic Maneuvering: Germany would need to engage in diplomatic efforts to secure alliances or cooperation with neighboring countries that border the Middle East, such as Turkey. Establishing favorable relations with these countries could provide logistical support and potentially serve as staging points for military operations.
2. Exploiting Local Tensions: Identify existing tensions and conflicts within the Middle East region that Germany could exploit. Support local factions or groups that are discontent with the current order, thereby creating instability and a potential opening for German intervention.
3. Propaganda and Soft Power: Use propaganda to shape public opinion in both Middle Eastern countries and within Germany itself. This could involve portraying Germany as a champion of anti-colonialism or presenting a narrative that appeals to local grievances against colonial powers.
4. Covert Operations: Engage in covert operations to weaken local governments and infrastructures. Espionage, sabotage, and support for rebel groups could help destabilize the region, making it more susceptible to German influence.
5. Naval and Air Superiority: Establish a strong naval and air presence in the Mediterranean Sea, potentially in alliance with Italy. This would provide a means to project power and potentially launch airstrikes on key targets in the Middle East.
6. Diversion of Allied Attention: Exploit distractions or vulnerabilities of the major colonial powers that have interests in the Middle East, such as Britain and France. Distracting them elsewhere or weakening their resolve could reduce the resistance to German actions.
7. Swift Military Action: Plan a coordinated military campaign involving rapid deployments and overwhelming force. The invasion would need to be well-timed and focused on key strategic points to swiftly overcome resistance.
8. Local Collaborators: Identify and collaborate with local leaders who are willing to cooperate with German interests. This could involve promises of autonomy or support for their own ambitions in exchange for assistance.
9. Resource Management: Ensure a steady supply of resources, especially fuel and provisions, to support the military campaign. This might require securing supply lines and logistical routes through alliances with sympathetic countries.
10. Anticipate International Response: Be prepared to face potential backlash from other major powers, including economic sanctions, diplomatic isolation, and military retaliation. Calculating and mitigating these risks would be essential.

Again, it's important to stress that this scenario is highly speculative and simplifies complex historical, political, and ethical factors. The geopolitical landscape of the time was far more intricate, and any attempt to invade the Middle East would have been met with significant challenges and consequences.